Official Greater Philadelphia Area Crime Thread (Sandy, Ernest: disposal, dinners, garbage)

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Kamms

What are these ''stupid'' things Schellenger did while drinking?

Where are these prior arrests?

From this article:

In August 2001, [Schellenger] was charged in Chester County with burglary, resisting arrest, criminal trespassing, and theft; the disposition of that case was not available Saturday. In 2008, Schellenger was charged in Okaloosa County, Fla., with battery and resisting detention. Court documents describe the disposition of that case as “dropped/abandoned.” In 2009, records show, Schellenger was found guilty of disorderly conduct in Chester County.

Had he lived, if White's spokesperson's description of where Schellenger was at one point during the scuffle is accurate, he too could have been arraigned on battery charges.

The article, by the way, does not quote White directly in describing the incident. The quotes are attributed to a family spokesperson, Greg Thompson, who said Schellenger tackled White and "was laying on top of him," and his cousin Larry, who said that White "felt he was being racially targeted by these individuals [the three people who all got out of the car, according to an earlier description of the incident released by police], who wanted to start a fight."

So we actually can't assume that White's attorney will claim he was attacked due to racial animus in court. I do think it's safe to assume that he will argue self-defense, and these priors, especially the one for battery, will probably be used to support the claim.

BTW: don't forget what White was doing at the time of the incident. That was his job. One of my colleagues here at the mag told me as we were discussing this incident about an hour ago that it's common for bicycle food delivery people to carry knives for self-defense when they're on the job. It's illegal for them or any civilian to carry Mace, something I didn't know. You all think no one tries to rob bike delivery people traveling alone late at night? Would you suggest they carry guns for their protection? They need some sort of defense, don't they?

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

From this article:



Had he lived, if White's spokesperson's description of where Schellenger was at one point during the scuffle is accurate, he too could have been arraigned on battery charges.

The article, by the way, does not quote White directly in describing the incident. The quotes are attributed to a family spokesperson, Greg Thompson, who said Schellenger tackled White and "was laying on top of him," and his cousin Larry, who said that White "felt he was being racially targeted by these individuals [the three people who all got out of the car, according to an earlier description of the incident released by police], who wanted to start a fight."

So we actually can't assume that White's attorney will claim he was attacked due to racial animus in court. I do think it's safe to assume that he will argue self-defense, and these priors, especially the one for battery, will probably be used to support the claim.

BTW: don't forget what White was doing at the time of the incident. That was his job. One of my colleagues here at the mag told me as we were discussing this incident about an hour ago that it's common for bicycle food delivery people to carry knives for self-defense when they're on the job. It's illegal for them or any civilian to carry Mace, something I didn't know. You all think no one tries to rob bike delivery people traveling alone late at night? Would you suggest they carry guns for their protection? They need some sort of defense, don't they?

Didn't say the attorney would use race, but he or she will eventually. The fact that the family mentioned it so soon is telling. Also, of course the family ''spokesperson'' didn't witness anything. I can't read the entire article but what I did read was ''innocent 20 year old confronted by 3 intoxicated white males, felt racially targeted''...hmm.

I couldn't locate any criminal records in Philadelphia, Delaware, or Chester Counties related to anyone named Sean Schellenger. Wonder where these writers picked up cases on him both in PA and FL.

No one is legally allowed to carry a concealed knife in Philadelphia.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

It will.

But I think it's worth noting here that you have at least three black people who know or have met Schellenger, and all three have stuck up for his character.

One of them is the district Councilman who lived just down the block from him. And if you know anything about development in Point Breeze, you know he's no fan of another developer very active in that neighborhood. I consider the different response he has to Schellenger's tragic demise and his support for Streamline's work in that neighborhood overall most interesting and indicative of Schellenger's standing among those who knew him.

The second is someone I know from years in the Gayborhood who also knows Schellenger and has gone out drinking with him on numerous occasions - including the night in question. He considers Schellenger a good friend of his and a man of upstanding character. He has also said that Schellenger can do some stupid things when he gets drunk, and the prior arrests that have surfaced since this story broke bear him out, but he too has said that he believes race had nothing to do with Schellenger's actions.

The third is me. That I am explaining here or elsewhere how Michael White might structure his defense, or how some might see all this through the prism of race, does not mean that I agree with White's argument or those who are viewing the incident through that prism.

In other words, this incident is not as black-and-white as some make it out to be. Not by a long shot.

Has the DA announced formal charges? I have not been following this as closely as some of you.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Is there proof that the "attack" was racially charged? Last I heard I did not hear any story-line of that regard, but it sure is an easy way to make a murdered look innocent....

Also, I find it hard to believe that Schellenger would be involved in a racially motivated attack. From what I have seen, heard and experienced, he was a hard working developer who took pride in his work and the city he lived in and got caught in an unfortunate situation.

Of course White's family is going to defend him in any way they can, but I really hope they don't overdue this self defense crap or use the racial attack motive. It was murder by a weapon he probably didn't need.

In any case until there are formal charges (I agree with MarketEl that it likely will be Man. 1), trying to figure out a defense strategy is premature. It may never go to trial plus if it does it will be months from now.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Kamms

No one is legally allowed to carry a concealed knife in Philadelphia.

If that's the case, the city's not enforcing the law, then, for my colleague said this was common knowledge.

And if the city does enforce the law, guess what? Expect the gun homicide count to go up, for that will be the only legal self-defense tool they could carry. Bet the customers would love it too.

Originally Posted by kyb01

In any case until there are formal charges (I agree with MarketEl that it likely will be Man. 1), trying to figure out a defense strategy is premature. It may never go to trial plus if it does it will be months from now.

The news reports simply said he was "arraigned on murder charges." He's being held without bail. Next court date is Aug. 1. That will probably be when he is formally charged.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

From this article:



Had he lived, if White's spokesperson's description of where Schellenger was at one point during the scuffle is accurate, he too could have been arraigned on battery charges.

The article, by the way, does not quote White directly in describing the incident. The quotes are attributed to a family spokesperson, Greg Thompson, who said Schellenger tackled White and "was laying on top of him," and his cousin Larry, who said that White "felt he was being racially targeted by these individuals [the three people who all got out of the car, according to an earlier description of the incident released by police], who wanted to start a fight."

So we actually can't assume that White's attorney will claim he was attacked due to racial animus in court. I do think it's safe to assume that he will argue self-defense, and these priors, especially the one for battery, will probably be used to support the claim.

Why are you assuming it will go to trial?

Have any of you actually served on a jury in a criminal case? I have two times. One was a murder trial which ended in conviction for the defendant. I almost ended up on a third jury for another murder. Prospective jurors sat around for hours as(we found out later) defense lawyers and ADAs fought over settling the case out of court.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

The news reports simply said he was "arraigned on murder charges." He's being held without bail. Next court date is Aug. 1. That will probably be when he is formally charged.

Okay, thanks.

[Kamms]

[quote=MarketStEl;52513334]If that's the case, the city's not enforcing the law, then, for my colleague said this was common knowledge.

And if the city does enforce the law, guess what? Expect the gun homicide count to go up, for that will be the only legal self-defense tool they could carry. Bet the customers would love it too.


It's reason there is a weapon charge against White as well.

Not sure I get the point about not enforcing the law. Are cops just supposed to shake down bike delivery workers looking for concealed knives. One can only be charged with this charge if a concealed knife is discovered, then you are charged.

Michael White would be charged if he were found to have that knife in his possession, whether or not it was involved with a crime.

How bike delivery self-defense homicide cases are there?

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Why are you assuming it will go to trial?

Have any of you actually served on a jury in a criminal case? I have two times. One was a murder trial which ended in conviction for the defendant. I almost ended up on a third jury for another murder. Prospective jurors sat around for hours as(we found out later) defense lawyers and ADAs fought over settling the case out of court.

No, it could be closed through a plea bargain.

I also served on a jury in a criminal case - a guy who got hauled in on several weapons-possession and robbery charges. I was the foreman on that jury.

Most of the jurors were of the opinion that the cop botched the arrest and didn't prove his case for all the charges but there was enough evidence that he did something that we couldn't simply acquit him of everything. So we voted to convict on the weapons-possession charges but acquit on the robbery ones.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Didn't say the attorney would use race, but he or she will eventually. The fact that the family mentioned it so soon is telling. Also, of course the family ''spokesperson'' didn't witness anything. I can't read the entire article but what I did read was ''innocent 20 year old confronted by 3 intoxicated white males, felt racially targeted''...hmm.

I couldn't locate any criminal records in Philadelphia, Delaware, or Chester Counties related to anyone named Sean Schellenger. Wonder where these writers picked up cases on him both in PA and FL.

No one is legally allowed to carry a concealed knife in Philadelphia.

I am waiting for Ernest Owens to release some vomit worthy garbage about the family using race as a motive.

He already posted on his Twitter TAKING THE SIDE OF WHITE, when he knows absolutely nothing about the situation. Makes my blood boil.

Any comments on that Sandy?????


Either way this whole situation was a horribly unfortunate, but I don't think the young man (yes he is a man, not a child) was using self defense. Hasn't anyone heard the saying "stabbed in the back"...

Adding to your point, I think he was charged with possession of a weapon too