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Old 10-09-2020, 07:09 AM
 
Location: New York City
8,498 posts, read 7,721,374 times
Reputation: 5336

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsport View Post
There is one critically important casualty we are overlooking here - the city's reputation. I have lived in some dicey areas, visited even sketchier ones. I have made some rather poor decisions, like cutting down Brown Street from Broad to 5th at 2am when I should have walked to Spring Garden and then then cut north on 5th. That resulted in a gun to my temple and being relieved of my belongings.

We are looking at this spike in violent crime in such provincial and insular manners. The real victim is the city. To those outside of southeast PA (and to many in southeast PA), from the stats and pictures on the news, Philadelphia looks like something out of Mad Max with city leadership that seems to completely ignore the situation. This in turn strongly impacts who moves here, which companies consider relocating here, what major conventions and fortune 100 company meetings are held here, who takes their family vacation to spend a week in historic Philly, and who doesn't, etc... I honestly don't care all that much that the 5th street boys are fighting the 8th street ganstas for drug turf. I DO care that this nonsense might very well be severely hurting our city from finally achieving what it's place as a beautiful, desirable city.

And why on earth do we need to decide whether we fight shootings in neighborhoods OR we stop dangerous illegal dirt bikes in packs of hundreds from drag racing on our city streets and terrorizing our residents? Want to know the kind of cities that make those sort of decisions and trade-offs? The cities upstanding individuals try to avoid.
Great post.

Crime is crime, whether its isolated or widespread it is still an issue in Philadelphia. And the mentality of "I've never been a victim of crime, therefore its not that bad" is ridiculous. I get it, bad things happen everywhere, but Philadelphia still has a crime problem.

And yes, by and large people are safe in Philadelphia, but the portrayal of the wild west is enough to harm the city's image. Look at Chicago...

We are in the midst of a complete societal transition due to Covid, politics and wild weather. Philadelphia has a great shot to steal thunder from New York and other regions, yet, startling crime rates on paper with less than desirable leadership can certainly hurt the growth and recovery of the city. Families, companies, jobs, etc. might chose the suburbs or opt for DC. While its frustrating and dramatic, its true.

Obviously crime is not Philadelphia's only problem, I think the tax structure / unfriendly business environment is a bigger detriment to economic/general growth, but crime should still be a concern, whether gang related or not.

Also, the dirt bike thing needs to stop. It is illegal and dangerous, period. The social media excuses are ridiculous.

(but, even if I am harsh in some posts, I still love my Philadelphia ).
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Old 10-09-2020, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
11,613 posts, read 6,301,348 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovephilly79 View Post
And yes, it is a cultural problem. I understand how it works very well, but what are we going to do to break that culture down and try to change it? Or is that just the way it is forever?
Your point about the other casualties is well taken, but I still don't see the path from there to "you can't go there."

But the paragraph I left in is indeed the $64k question. And I'm not sure what the answers are. I see the signs in the corner store window pleading "Stop. Shooting. People." — yet the store in question (under a previous owner who sold beer from it; that no longer happens) is the site of two of those three executions I mentioned, and there's a cop car stationed next to it at almost all hours of the day.

This will probably get me flogged, but I actually think that gentrification may be part of the answer. That usually brings with it more engaged residents (I've remarked in some of the Germantown Facebook forums that one problem with my side of the neighborhood is that it has a very weak civic infrastructure — by that term I mean neighborhood civic associations, block/town watches and suchlike), and those residents who remain once the "gentry" move in find their lives and life chances get better too.

But for that to happen, one must fight the "stay away, you won't be safe here" narrative. See the catch?
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Old 10-09-2020, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,308 posts, read 656,729 times
Reputation: 1030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsport View Post
There is one critically important casualty we are overlooking here - the city's reputation. I have lived in some dicey areas, visited even sketchier ones. I have made some rather poor decisions, like cutting down Brown Street from Broad to 5th at 2am when I should have walked to Spring Garden and then then cut north on 5th. That resulted in a gun to my temple and being relieved of my belongings.....
Are you sure that wassn't someone who knew you?


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Old 10-09-2020, 08:06 AM
 
2,041 posts, read 1,220,935 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
And yes, by and large people are safe in Philadelphia, but the portrayal of the wild west is enough to harm the city's image. Look at Chicago...
Philadelphia isn't a city the media likes to portray as a dangerous city the way it did with Chicago though. It doesn't seem to matter that Philly has had the most murders of any city outside Chicago for the past few years. I doubt anyone knows that and no one thinks of Philly as the country's 2nd most dangerous city just because it has the 2nd most murders even though Chicago is thought of as America's most dangerous city because it has the most murders.

Add to this that theres really no tug of war politically because at the state level, Philadelphia is a Trump city (even though 83% if its population voted for Hillary. The conservative media doesn't attack cities, it attacks states. That's why they started a firestorm about Chicago's murders. They see no point in criticizing Philadelphia because despite Philly having the 2nd most homicides and being just as Democratic as Chicago (both cities went 83% for Hillary) the state Philly's in still belongs to Trump.
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Old 10-09-2020, 08:23 AM
 
2,041 posts, read 1,220,935 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by FindingZen View Post

I was also saying as somewhat of an aside that, those areas notwithstanding, it's surprising that Trump hasn't lumped in Philadelphia with New York, Portland and Seattle given the particularly strong opposition to him at City Hall as well as the intensity of protests and clashes in recent months.
For an explanation to this, see my above post. Trump and the conservative media feel no need to attack Philadelphia. This is because Philadelphia is located within Pennsylvania and for no other reason. If Pennsylvania had voted for the Democratic nominee as it had the past 7 election cycles, Philadelphia would have had much more attention from Republicans since 2016. Instead it gets virtually none. That may change come 4 weeks from now. If Philadelphia is the sole reason Trump loses a second term, you can bet all Republicans will put Philly on their "dangerous democrat cities" list.
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Old 10-09-2020, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
11,613 posts, read 6,301,348 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoNgFooCj View Post
For an explanation to this, see my above post. Trump and the conservative media feel no need to attack Philadelphia. This is because Philadelphia is located within Pennsylvania and for no other reason. If Pennsylvania had voted for the Democratic nominee as it had the past 7 election cycles, Philadelphia would have had much more attention from Republicans since 2016. Instead it gets virtually none. That may change come 4 weeks from now. If Philadelphia is the sole reason Trump loses a second term, you can bet all Republicans will put Philly on their "dangerous democrat cities" list.
"...because bad things happen in Philadelphia."

But Donald Trump was talking about our elections, not our crime problem, when he said that. Everything else I might have to say about Trump and Pennsylvania this year is not germane to this thread.

As for the image of the city:

Yes, the alarm bells are going off, but it's interesting that no one's dusted off the 1990s moniker "Killadelphia" to describe this place now.
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Old 10-09-2020, 09:07 AM
 
1,810 posts, read 740,060 times
Reputation: 1344
Quote:
Originally Posted by AshbyQuin View Post
I see already there's paranoia within a few commenters in this thread. "Gang"/Drug- related homicides are always the majority. 6ABC does a great job at scaring the public into thinking as soon as they leave Center City, they'll be punched in the face or shot. If you aren't involved in that lifestyle, your chances of becoming a victim are slim to none.

That's not to say innocent bystanders don't get it with a stray bullet. M lived in Cecil B Moore 3 years and have never encountered a crime. I've held at gun-point, house broken into once, car broken into several times, had packages stolen, and I live in the "safe" suburbs of Cheltenham.

With all of that being said, the police need to focus more on solving homicides and policing "hot" neighborhoods rather than rounding up motorcycles and dirtbikes.
I always say when I lived in a Big city that I never experienced crime. But I also have to note I was segregated in a side of the city not labeled as a hood. My warnings of areas to avoid I heeded so of course never saw crime on the news.

As a outsider, 6ABC did not create any fear that is not there for decades. Those in these neighborhoods clearly know when a outsider wonders in. You all generally know who is a tourist in CC also. A looking up and around and on a smaller sidewalk being seen as slowing you down, speaking to a stranger that is not usually how it goes on the street etc. Same with in NYC.

Visitors need to be aware going into any major city of do's and don'ts as if real warnings, not just always be aware, knowing your surroundings in a hood will be different and of course watching your back. NOT be paranoid... but always aware. Not just Philly of course. When I lived in a major city I had no reason to go into what could be called a hood. Had no family or relatives there and no retail and such I needed to be there for. Some eateries were basically only reason I might seek one out. I did not.

So I was self-segregated as I heeded warnings and even propaganda of warnings and declined neighborhood from those who once lived there pounded in. Did I miss out on something living in a major city by never seeing 1/3rd even 1/2 of it? Not really. I did see more over the years on return visits that included areas I avoided years back and though did not look terrible .... it did tell me I did not miss out of anything really. Hoods are hoods far more by crime and other factors that are real for those who live there and not everyone seeing crime does not lessen the higher risk there.

Many people live their lives in a certain area, region, or side of a major city and find no need to venture to a area they need not go to. Just as some live their lives in suburbs and never venturing into the city. That was very common a couple decades and more especially. White flight was still in the minds of those who were alive yet and part of those that fled to another corner of the city or suburbs. My family who left parts of one city they once lived ..... never ventured back. They were of the White Flight generation and even the downtown was a no need to go zone as it was not the same to them at all. That was then, still lasted decades and for them .... became their lifetimes spent in their new neighborhood and did not look back at the old or go back.

I have met people who moved to my area of PA and yes from Philly and NYC much much cheaper with good schools etc. People are people. More older but not all. in a couple bars I go to, but do not speak much of their former city... be it NYC or Philly as no need to. Yet it is a part of them forever.

Still one young person 26-yr old who is a bartender... I have had many conversations with and spoke on his early life being raised in Philly in Kensington. What part I never asked and about 13 years ago his parents left Philly. His parents ultimately moved to small city and rural Potter County very North Central PA. into his early teens and later for high school his couple final years by my area.

He told a few stories of his Philly mentality and why it developed and that he was taught by example by his father and uncle of always being ready to fight and did experience fights with his family and always needing to show no fear and literally never to run. He learned from his male family members of how to be and= to never be that victim that did not walk away. That the perpetrators WILL respect you if you stand firm against them and most likely then no next time.

Jist of the story is that ability to be in FIGHT MODE he had ingrained in him before the move. That is part of him for life. He knows how to always be aware and WILL be in your face IF you cross a line offensively. If a problem in the bar arose ..... he would instantly take up that tactic of defensive mode as if his own turf you did a wrong turn in and no delay of intervention.

Being in the bar near closing when just me and other times of quite pandemic times in the bar. The stories came out. I being much older .... had big city experience in my past, but clearly protected from any hoods as a transplant. It clearly made me aware that I as a outsider to Philly even further and SHOULD be AWARE of the mentality I knew was a REALITY of some who lived in areas you needed realize is different in a mindset alone that is molded by the realities of hood life you never knew in a small city. The you disrespected me mode is a reality.

So it is best to not find yourself in a region you do not know and heed warnings that are not impractical for even someone who is a local but a total outsider in a part of Philly that may hold a lot of interesting aspects..... still no one should be told it is all just fine as any suburb that people like to present as have experience more crime in a suburb..... that then the hoods get the accusations of the most of. Well a package stolen is not what raises TRUE Fear. Gentrification was not yet a reality. Just changing neighborhoods to ones seen as to decline. That is perhaps different then today.

That all is fine if you are not looking for trouble is in need of a raised awareness if in a hood. If 6ABC speaks of that you need to be still EXTRA- aware? That is what needs to be noted for those not exposed to such a scene and you will be seen as a outsider if you really are. One who was more sheltered in a same other city or suburb or even far corner of the city. The awareness factor never should be downplayed. It is a reality just as raised in a hood environment will change a persons perspective and for some .... they become the hood rats so to speak. The perpetrators that disturb the peace.

Same thing in total awareness of parts that are a higher risk in any major city. To always be aware and if one is not expected to be in a neighborhood and would be instantly seen as a outsider. Best not to venture as if fearless and better see yourself as having skills to protect yourself. If not raised in a certain environment also. It is realizing that a turf mentality is not merely just being a gang member. It is not merely about race alone as Large cities always had ethnic segregation and color alone was not what alone could make one a outsider especially past eras.

There are personalities that are even more intense having been raised and living in a hood. It does evolved a different type of person. One who lives by always in the offensive mode if one feels being disrespected and it can happen quickly. A never run aspect is respected .... or a make sure you strike first before you seek a clear escape mode and if known by those who confront you .... running will be the WORST thing you can do. You will be labeled and targeted and not respected which this young lad clearly laid out on what he learned and has to this day ingrained in him.

I found this young man to have something that being raised in Philly .... he will have for life, that you can take the boy out of Philly.... but never the Philly out of that boy. His future plans are Southward with Texas or Carolinas in his next move after this pandemic. Not much in Central Pa to stay for in reality nor did he present any desire to move back to Philly. Though he has a part of him that will always be Philly including aspects of his accent. Still it did not make him see it as home ever again.

This is not just Philadelphia, but clearly there is a type of stereotype that you do learn has a reality in our major cities. Sometimes it becomes something that even a local or former resident will reveal is a reality. Some get defensive as they see it as a put-down. No it is what a city needs to realize is part of its reality and seems 6ABC and the Inquirer do not hold back in presenting it.
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Old 10-09-2020, 11:42 AM
 
Location: The Left Toast
1,303 posts, read 1,751,328 times
Reputation: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
I'd love to know how the violent numbers looked if you stripped out any gang-related crime and violence. Even if you considered collateral victims, that number might ease some of the perceptions that Philly (and really any big town) is spiraling out of control.

Gang violence definitely is. And it's scary. But I'm not sure the risk of falling victim to violent murder for someone in greater philly has moved significantly for someone outside of the drug trade.

You're never going to get guns off the street. In the problem areas of the city, guns are more prominent then pens. This move regarding the gun laws seems like optics more than anything. None of these gang members buy these guns at Dicks.
What " Gangs" are operating in Philadelphia?
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Old 10-09-2020, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,308 posts, read 656,729 times
Reputation: 1030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenses & Lights. View Post
What " Gangs" are operating in Philadelphia?
Is that a joke?
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Old 10-10-2020, 06:57 AM
 
Location: 215
1,510 posts, read 591,234 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
Is that a joke?
I assume OP was thinking in the traditional scene IE; Bloods Crips GD's ect, there are none outside of the few kids who put the crip emoji in their bio.
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