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The CEO of Comcast actually lives in Radnor I belive. He purchased a penthouse or 2 in 10 Rittenhouse but does not live there.
Also not denying wealth in the city. There are are many neighborhoods that rival the wealthiest neighborhoods in the suburbs with beautiful homes and high rises. I was just pointing out that its like night and day for much of the city and the suburbs, due to extreme amounts of poverty in portions of the city that do drag down its reputation to suburbanites, even though it is exaggerated.
While the Main Line is rich and nice, it isnt in demand compared to many other suburbs nowadays, rather stagnant, due to overcrowding. Chester county, portions of Bucks, Northern Montgomery county and northwestern Delaware county showed the largest population increase over the past decade. Towns like Glen Mills, Garnet Valley, Thornbury, West Chester area are booming with wealth and development.
Many Main Line suburbs peaked in population in the '70s and have jumped a bit back and forth ever since (probably largely indicative of the nuclear family --> empty nest cycle). I don't think the issue is "overcrowding" so much as if you want new construction, you're not going to find a whole lot of it.
As far as the whole urban/inner/outer suburban debate goes, how things will fare in the future are going to largely depend on how much truth there is to the oft-repeated City-Data adage of, "young people overwhelmingly prefer walkable urban neighborhoods." I personally think there's going to be more of a balance, with no one particular type of area standing heads and shoulders above the others. But one thing to keep in mind is that sprawl does not age well. So far, the only auto-centric suburbs that have taken a strong turn are the ones that were never all that upscale to begin with, like Levittown and Willingboro. But real estate values and income levels in more middle to upper middle class parts of Broomall, King of Prussia, Cherry Hill, etc. are starting to stagnate as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87
Sure there are million dollar homes in CC but they can not compare to the sheer numbers of multi million dollar homes in the burbs. Its not even close. And YOU KNOW that all of those rich people in CC have suburban homes for vacation homes.. I know lots of people in CC that also have shore and burbs homes too. Everyone loved peace and quiet as they grow older and more successful
LOL back in 1850, maybe, when air conditioning was non-existant and places like Meadowbrook and Merion were half a horse-and-buggy ride away and safely "out in the country." But shore houses, most definitely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
Nothing more peaceful and quiet than 400 ft in the air in a Penthouse. Also, of course they have beach homes. Most of the them don't have them in NJ tho. They have them in Miami, Malibu or tropical islands. If you had all that money would you own a beach home in NJ? Hell nawh. Also, you are comparing ALL the suburbs around Philly, to the 2 sq mile area of Center City? On a per capita basis there is definitely more wealthy living in Center City than anywhere else in the metro.
I'm not so sure about that. I'm sure certain enclaves give the wealthy suburbs a run for their money, but Center City is remarkably economically diverse as a whole. Places like Moorestown and Chadds Ford don't have large swaths of college students and young professionals the way most Center City neighborhoods do. Proportionally speaking, you're going to find a lot more established, upper-crust families in Wayne than Washington Square.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
All of the wealthy people living in Center City and the Northwest disagree with you. Million dollar homes in Rittenhouse, Society Hill, Filter Square, Logan Square, Mt. Airy, Chestnut Hill?
Guess you overlooked all of them.
Cliff Lee and Jonathan Papelbon live in 1706 Rittenhouse. Chase Utley lives in the Aria. The CEO of Comcast lives in one of the penthouses at 10 Rittenhouse. Bart Blatstein, a big time real estate developer just bought a house in Rittenhouse Square. A bunch of big head execs and CEOs at GlaxoSmithKline live in Two Liberty Place. There are plenty of wealthy living in the city whether you want to believe it or not. While the wage tax is certainly a factor to SOME, I don't think it is the lead primary cause. The wealthiest locations all throughout the US are ALL suburbs outside of one location, Manhattan. Long Island, Main Line, Beverly Hills, Malibu, Orange County. All high wealth areas you can think of? All suburbs. It is a society problem with this country and the long tradition of wealth and middle class locating in the suburbs, and not cities. Of course, this is slowly changing, and people are starting to move back to cities, but to this day suburbanization still has a foothold in the US. The Main Line is a historical bastion of wealth, and birds of a feather flock together. Wealthy tend to want to be around wealthy. The abundance of top notch schools located along the Main Line is also a contributing factor, and while the wage tax may be a cause for some, it is certainly not a leading reason why people chose to locate to the Main Line instead of city limits.
Yeah, the wage tax is really a drop in the bucket compared to other in-city expenses--particularly private schools. I'm personally fine with paying the cost premium to live on the edge of the heart of the city. When I have a family, I'm going to be thinking about how ungodly expensive day schools are, which is lot more than 5% of most peoples' paychecks.
Last edited by ElijahAstin; 05-28-2013 at 09:08 PM..
Nothing more peaceful and quiet than 400 ft in the air in a Penthouse. Also, of course they have beach homes. Most of the them don't have them in NJ tho. They have them in Miami, Malibu or tropical islands. If you had all that money would you own a beach home in NJ? Hell nawh. Also, you are comparing ALL the suburbs around Philly, to the 2 sq mile area of Center City? On a per capita basis there is definitely more wealthy living in Center City than anywhere else in the metro.
Both are true. Its almost second nature for wealthy suburban PA families to have a beach house in NJ. Its like a second home, not even to brag about, but many also have some in Myrtle Beach, Hilton Head, etc. And I know there is a lot of wealthy people in parts of Center City, but thats a stretch. You could be driving through Chadds Ford, Berwyn, Edgemont, etc and see nothing but ridiculous homes and properties, even the smaller homes are beautiful. There are more single professionals in CC, but suburbs have thousands of families and old people who are very well off. All the Center City zips would be on top if that was true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343
Whether it is true or not, that does not mean there aren't wealthy who live in Center City. Other CEOs, Directors, Execs of large companies own property in Center City as well as professional athletes and doctors/surgeons, etc.
My comment wasn't necessarily directed at you. Just hate some posters on here who think everything within the city is poor.
I agree with you on most parts, but my point was that the suburbs are better off than the city, because of high pockets of poverty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood
Many Main Line suburbs peaked in population in the '70s and have jumped a bit back and forth ever since (probably largely indicative of the nuclear family --> empty nest cycle). I don't think the issue is "overcrowding" so much as if you want new construction, you're not going to find a whole lot of it.
As far as the whole urban/inner/outer suburban debate goes, how things will fare in the future are going to largely depend on how much truth there is to the oft-repeated City-Data adage of, "young people overwhelmingly prefer walkable urban neighborhoods." I personally think there's going to be more of a balance, with no one particular type of area standing heads and shoulders above the others. But one thing to keep in mind is that sprawl does not age well. So far, the only auto-centric suburbs that have taken a strong turn are the ones that were never all that upscale to begin with, like Levittown and Willingboro. But real estate values and income levels in more middle to upper middle class parts of Broomall, King of Prussia, Cherry Hill, etc. are starting to stagnate as well.
I'm not so sure about that. I'm sure certain enclaves give the wealthy suburbs a run for their money, but Center City is remarkably economically diverse as a whole. Places like Moorestown and Chadds Ford don't have large swaths of college students and young professionals the way most Center City neighborhoods do. Proportionally speaking, you're going to find a lot more established, upper-crust families in Wayne than Washington Square.
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Sprawl today is different than 60 years ago. Garnet Valley for example is a sprawl town. But I do not ever see those 5000-8000 sqft homes turning into a rundown lower middle class suburb. Most sprawl today is upscale, chester county, parts of Delaware county, etc. Companies building multimillion dollar homes. The mentality has changed, these arent homes just simply built to accomodate like Levittown and Brookhaven, these suburbs are meant for showing off wealth and whatnot, and will remain that way.
Nothing more peaceful and quiet than 400 ft in the air in a Penthouse. Also, of course they have beach homes. Most of the them don't have them in NJ tho. They have them in Miami, Malibu or tropical islands. If you had all that money would you own a beach home in NJ? Hell nawh. Also, you are comparing ALL the suburbs around Philly, to the 2 sq mile area of Center City? On a per capita basis there is definitely more wealthy living in Center City than anywhere else in the metro.
Whether it is true or not, that does not mean there aren't wealthy who live in Center City. Other CEOs, Directors, Execs of large companies own property in Center City as well as professional athletes and doctors/surgeons, etc.
My comment wasn't necessarily directed at you. Just hate some posters on here who think everything within the city is poor.
Not that it matters but if you use the map link the op had up you will see just how wrong you are. In fact you are so wrong its laughable. Check it out for yourself. Ain't much wealth in CC bud when you compare to to the outlaying areas...
Search for 'rich blocks, poor blocks'
Sprawl today is different than 60 years ago. Garnet Valley for example is a sprawl town. But I do not ever see those 5000-8000 sqft homes turning into a rundown lower middle class suburb. Most sprawl today is upscale, chester county, parts of Delaware county, etc. Companies building multimillion dollar homes. The mentality has changed, these arent homes just simply built to accomodate like Levittown and Brookhaven, these suburbs are meant for showing off wealth and whatnot, and will remain that way.
Obviously the sprawl you're referring to is in a different class from Levittown, but your assumption that it will forever remain upscale is not necessarily a safe one. Overbrook, Wynnefield, and Oak Lane, while not among the City's worst neighborhoods, have definitely fallen a staggering amount from their heyday. I don't think outer Delaware/Chester Counties are ever going to become ghettos, but they could very well lose their luster over the years. The biggest problem with sprawl is that the "sprawl mentality" associated with it leads people to pick up and move out to the next shiny new suburb if/when they can afford it. I'm not referring to the extreme high-end custom estates so much as the Toll Brothers-style developments that are interspersed between them.
Downtown versus Suburbia is strictly a matter of choice and taste. I was born and raised in South Philly, bought my first house in the Northeast (Parkwood), my second house in Bucks County (Newtown), my third in Jenkintown. Since re-marrying I have lived in Chinatown and now Washington West. For me it is about my current wife being a nurse at Jefferson working the graveyard shift, and the fact that I simply prefer downtown living. If I was raising kids I would be in the burbs. I do rent though, at the ripe old age of 58 I am not looking to take out a mortgage, and I think real-estate is a bit over-valued down here.
Not that it matters but if you use the map link the op had up you will see just how wrong you are. In fact you are so wrong its laughable. Check it out for yourself. Ain't much wealth in CC bud when you compare to to the outlaying areas...
Search for 'rich blocks, poor blocks'
The littlest things can skew those statistics in the wrong way. High concentrations of students? Young professionals? Renters? Retirees? You don't get it. Are you saying Rittenhouse Square is not an extremely wealthy area? Ya know, all the multi-million dollar listings, Maserati's, McClaren's and Aston Martin's I see parked next to Rittenhouse Square on a daily basis say different. Yet the map only puts the average income at ~$70k. Those are the renters and students bringing down the average income. Good luck affording a multi-million dollar condo or rowhome on that income. In some suburbs, there are very few rental options, there are no students, etc. etc. etc. All there is are large mansions and mcmansions and nothing to skew the statistics. I can't believe how unbelievably difficult it is for you to apply your brain, and you work in education somewhere, which is even scarier.
You have no idea what you are talking about Frank. That is why I said before, it is much more effective to look at average homes prices in an area, it will give you a better idea on the wealth of an area because it removes students, renters and other outliers that can skew statistics.
The littlest things can skew those statistics in the wrong way. High concentrations of students? Young professionals? Renters? Retirees? You don't get it. Are you saying Rittenhouse Square is not an extremely wealthy area? Ya know, all the multi-million dollar listings, Maserati's, McClaren's and Aston Martin's I see parked next to Rittenhouse Square on a daily basis say different. Yet the map only puts the average income at ~$70k. Those are the renters and students bringing down the average income. Good luck affording a multi-million dollar condo or rowhome on that income. In some suburbs, there are very few rental options, there are no students, etc. etc. etc. All there is are large mansions and mcmansions and nothing to skew the statistics. I can't believe how unbelievably difficult it is for you to apply your brain, and you work in education somewhere, which is even scarier.
You have no idea what you are talking about Frank. That is why I said before, it is much more effective to look at average homes prices in an area, it will give you a better idea on the wealth of an area because it removes students, renters and other outliers that can skew statistics.
Look up the %age of >$250k earners by zip code on American Factfinder. That'll settle the debate. IIRC, while Center City zips are on the high end, they're not #1. In any event, there are a million and one ways to parse out this argument in order to lead to a conclusion that suits one's own biases. If medians don't work, look at means, and failing that, try median owner-occupied home values, etc. etc. etc.
Either way, there shouldn't be a doubt in anyone's mind that certain Center City census block groups are astronomically wealthy.
This is for the Zipcode 19103 (includes half of Rittenhouse Square, and Fitler Square)
Total population: 21,908
There are 3,491 family households
There are 11,291 non-family households
Out of that, 2,355 are 65 years or older (therefore likely retired)
1,186 are under 18
There are 4,623 living in the zipcode currently enrolled in College or Graduate School
78.2% of the population in the zip have AT LEAST a Bachelor's Degree
This is for the Zipcode 19103 (includes half of Rittenhouse Square, and Fitler Square)
Total population: 21,908
There are 3,491 family households
There are 11,291 non-family households
Out of that, 2,355 are 65 years or older (therefore likely retired)
1,186 are under 18
There are 4,623 living in the zipcode currently enrolled in College or Graduate School
78.2% of the population in the zip have AT LEAST a Bachelor's Degree
21% of the population are students
10.7% of the population are retirees
^What %age earn over $250k though? The high average indicates a skew, but you don't really know to what extent unless you see the full distribution.
Edit: I can check later.
Last edited by ElijahAstin; 05-29-2013 at 02:39 PM..
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