Philly or Jersey?? (Philadelphia, Erie, Reading: hotels, income, zoning)

[MoorestownResident]

Originally Posted by rainrock

If thats the case why then (according to you) are the Pa suburbs blue collar trailer trash and South Jersey this filthy rich robust economic machine that is carrying the region? It just doesnt add up. None of the info you provided adds up especially the few ambiguous,random SQ. footage reports from MSL.

Moorestown is a nice town,I'd put it in the top 7 towns in the region along with Doylestown,West Chester,Media,Chestnut Hill,Mainline towns,Haddonfield.

Overall though the Pa.suburbs are the economic engine of the region. The Pa suburbs are oriented towards corporate parks, bio medical,pharmaceuticals,finance and higher learning, wheras SJ is geared more towards industrial parks along 295 and bedroom communities to center city.

The Pa suburbs have 60 M sq feet of occupied office space. Center City has 40 M. sq feet. South jersey has 20 M Sq feet.New Castle Co. DEl has 20 M sq feet.

You also have to take landscape into account. This is where the burbs especially the further burbs in Chester,Montgomery + Bucks counties really seperates itself from South Jersey. If you ever take a ride out to Doylestown/Valley Forge/KOP/Exton/West Chester/Chadds Ford you will see the difference from South Jersey and why this area became a professional magnet.I have high hopes for South Jersey to eventually pilfer some professional jobs/people from North jersey but its not there yet.

You'd put M-town in the top 7 in the region, Money would put it tops in the US. Makes sense. I was referring to trailer parks outside the main line and within reasonably close to proximity to other 'upscale' parts of PA burbs and Philly itself. PA is actually many different local economies all within close proximity of each other. I never said NJ burbs were filthy rich, I said NJ burbs have more to offer than PA burbs. There are clearly low income areas both sides of the Delaware. This is Philly, not NYC.

SJ's economy has been booming with white collar job creation, corporate relocations and new upscale shopping centers. Look it up yourself, don't take my word for it. Your point about northern NJ transplants is absolutely false. The wealth in the NJ has been moving west and south for 20 years and it is not limited to north jersey. You sound like someone who has no idea what is happening in NJ. We are regularly seeing transplants and retirees coming from places like Long Island (my former neighbors, for example) and other points north looking for better weather, relatively less expensive housing with quality schools.

You strip out affordable housing, Camden and you will come away with a very different picture of what area is the most affordable including the 30% property tax difference and other ancillary costs like car insurance. Why is this the case? Well, it's pretty simple - NJ burbs are more strategically located to Philly, NYC, the shore with a strong commuting base. Real Estate is location, location, location.

I respect the Main Line and the affluent parts of PA but to suggest it is on par with what NJ has to offer is just silly. Nobody I know, including all of PA friends and co-workers would suggest that NJ burbs are inferior to PA's. NJ simply has a better reputation and is more strategically located to places that matter.

Lastly, lots of people here hire contractors in PA for various jobs because they are less expensive. I hired a PA company in Lansdowne to install my granite countertops because they were substantially less expensive than anyone I talked to in NJ. When asked, they said they do at least as much business in NJ than they do in PA which is kind of telling, don't you think? And I also bought some furniture out by Lancaster which isn't too far from the Main Line for at least 40% less than I could here. The Franklin Mills Mall and all those outlets? Nothing like that exists in SJ.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

You'd put M-town in the top 7 in the region, Money would put it tops in the US. Makes sense. I was referring to trailer parks outside the main line and within reasonably close to proximity to other 'upscale' parts of PA burbs and Philly itself. PA is actually many different local economies all within close proximity of each other. I never said NJ burbs were filthy rich, I said NJ burbs have more to offer than PA burbs.

LOL, 5 years ago some magazine needed to pull a name out of a hat and Moorestowns name came out. Now MoorestownResident is never going to let us hear the end of it. Well sorry to tell but this year Moorestown or any other south jersey town did not make the list, but three suburban Pa. towns did. 9. Nether Providence 12. West Goshen 15 Horsham.


Best Places to Live: Top 100 - Nether Providence (Wallingford), Pa. (9) - Money Magazine

SJ's economy has been booming with white collar job creation, corporate relocations and new upscale shopping centers. Look it up yourself, don't take my word for it. Your point about northern NJ transplants is absolutely false. The wealth in the NJ has been moving west and south for 20 years and it is not limited to north jersey.

The wealth is still very much in North Jersey according to the list of 100 wealthiest counties in the usa.

1.Hunterdon NJ
7.Somerset NJ
8.Morris NJ
20.Bergen NJ
26.Monmouth NJ
58.Sussex NJ
93.Union NJ
100. Burlington-wealthiest county in south jersey.

I never said NJ burbs were filthy rich, I said NJ burbs have more to offer than PA burbs.

How so. Explain please. How do the South jersey burbs have more to offer than PA burbs considering that the Pa burbs have 2x as many people and has a much higher per capita income. There isn't a mathemetician alive that can spin those numbers into South Jersey having more to offer than the Pa burbs.

Do a quick check of Home Depot, Bed bath + beyond,Kohls etc and I'll bet that the PA burbs have at least a 2 to 1 store ratio to South Jersey

Well, it's pretty simple - NJ burbs are more strategically located to Philly, NYC, the shore with a strong commuting base. Real Estate is location, location, location.

I'd be right there with you if real esate in South Jersey was actually more expensive than real estate in suburban PA. But its not. In fact its pretty far tilted the opposite way with with Pa. having a large disparity in real estate. The average suburban Pa house last year sold for $300K whereas South Jersey was closer to $235k. Big difference.

Its not rocket science. PA burbs much bigger wages, much more expensive houses, many more people. Those facts cant result in Pa having less to offer than south jersey.

I respect the Main Line and the affluent parts of PA but to suggest it is on par with what NJ has to offer is just silly.

Hopeless.

[john_starks]

i love jersey. i often think that philly wouldn't be as great w/o the jersey influence. that's what makes it a true northeastern city.

philly is as much jersey as it is pennsy

[billb7581]

Do a quick check of Home Depot, Bed bath + beyond,Kohls etc and I'll bet that the PA burbs have at least a 2 to 1 store ratio to South Jersey

No friggin way.. there are at least 10 Home Depots within 10 miles of my zip code (08077).

edit, after checking Home Depot, there are 2 within 5 miles and 9 within 10 miles.

Type in Radnor and there are 2 within 5 miles but only 5 within 10 miles.




The only thing the Western suburbs had that we didn't was an Ikea, but now there's one on Columbus blvd.

[rainrock]

I agree with John Starks that South Jersey is a very big part of the Philadlephia region but- just not as big as MoorestownResident thinks it is.

Originally Posted by billb7581

No friggin way.. there are at least 10 Home Depots within 10 miles of my zip code (08077).

Not to be difficult but half of them are on the pa. side.

Originally Posted by billb7581

The only thing the Western suburbs had that we didn't was an Ikea, but now there's one on Columbus blvd.

Now you are twisting the thread around. To my knowledge I nor any of the Pa. posters have ever intentionally tryed to downplay South Jersey. We were simply trying to set the record straight. Nobody ever said hey we have all this and South Jersey doesnt. Its more like MoorestownResident says how South jersey is vastly superior to Pa. burbs and we(I-mostly) are just putting out facts to set the record straight.


Home Depots Pa burbs- 19

King of Prussia
Plymouth meeting
Marple
West Norriton
Ridley
Springfield(Upper Darby)
East Whiteland
Concord Township
Willow Grove
Warrington
Montgomeryville
Neshaminy
Bensalem
Hilltown
Oxford Valley
Tullytown
Downingtown
Pottstown
West Sadsbury

Jersey Burbs-9

Mantua
Sicklerville
Mt.Laurel
Delran
Cherry Hill
Burlington
Lawnside
Deptford
Berlin

Philadelphia-5

[MoorestownResident]

Rainrock is probably some PA shrill living in Nova affiliated with a local Chamber or something. There is no way to explain his ignorance or denial of the difference between the regions. During the boom, NJ real estate rose roughly 80% versus 50% for PA, though I'm sure it was all in the north jersey. NJ was in the Top 10 for price appreciation. PA was not. That's telling right there. NJ is a better location with more access to everything.

SJ is the third ranked region in the country for retirement relocation in the nation based on a number of economic and demographic factors. Though anybody looking for housing outside of Camden at that price will be pretty disappointed. But housing is only one factor in this study.

Relocate to Your Affordable Dream Home

Number 3: Camden Metro Area, NJ
Inc.: 24/ Milken: 19/ Median Home Price: $187,000 (Source: NJ Division of Taxation, Philadelphia Inquirer)/ Places Rated: 29

Take that, New Yorkers who refer to New Jersey as "Jersey" and make fun of the turnpikes—Garden State residents are laughing and driving all the way to the bank! (Full disclosure: I'm a resident of Northern New Jersey.)

This South Jersey region features plentiful land, access to educated labor and major employers such as Lockheed Martin and Burlington Coat Factory. Entrepreneur Magazine also named New Jersey number two (after Arizona) in its 2005 top 10 states for doing business. Check out America's Job Bank Transition - Job Bank Information.

Notice NJ ranked #2 in Entrepreneur magazine for best places to do business. No mention of PA.

BusinessWeek: Ranking best places for the New Economy: NJ ranks #3 in the nation.

Ranking the States for the New Economy

'Rocker is living in denial and while being uninformed about SJ, he actually should be pleasantly surprised about what he doesn't know as it bodes well for the future of the region.

PA will never be thought of in the same light. But to put down all of PA burbs is not fair, great towns from Bucks county to the Main Line exist and are highly desirable with good public schools systems. Problem is that is the EXCEPTION, not the rule, in PA, outside of those areas it is blue collar city with materially lower cost of living. Nothing wrong with it but to sit in PA and declare victory on the burbs when every independent ranking source declares NJ and SJ as one of the most desirable regions in the country is just incredibly stupid.

You are right about one thing 'Rocker - people in PA main line apparently do sit in their mansions shut off from the rest of the world. Time to let some light in. In the meantime, thanks to PA for allowing me to save money on everything to clothes to furniture to countertops.

[MoorestownResident]

And PA burbs are home to the highest concentration of DISCOUNT shopping in the country. Yeah that's what I want to be close to as many Home Depot's as I can get - read BUSH LEAGUE.

Factory Outlets in PA:

Outlet Shopping in Pennsylvania

# Gettysburg Village
Gettysburg, PA
Phone: 717-337-9705
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 57 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# Prime Outlets at Grove City
Grove City, PA
Phone: 724-748-4770
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 114 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# The Outlets at Hershey, PA
Hershey, PA
Phone: 717-520-1236
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 51 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# Penn's Purchase Factory Outlet Village
Lahaska, PA
Phone: 215-794-0300
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 28 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# Rockvale Square Outlets
Lancaster, PA
Phone: 717-293-9595
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 79 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# Tanger Outlet Center
Lancaster, PA
Phone: 717-392-7260
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 59 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# Home Furnishings Factory Outlet Mall
Morgantown, PA
Phone: 610-286-2000
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 18 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# Franklin Mills
Philadelphia, PA
Phone: 215-632-1500
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 78 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# VF Outlet Village
Reading, PA
Phone: 610-378-0408
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 63 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# The Factory Shops at Georgian Place
Somerset, PA
Phone: 814-443-3818
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 11 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# The Crossings Premium Outlets
Tannersville, PA
Phone: 570-629-4650
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 106 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

Factory Outlets in SJ:

# Atlantic City Outlets, The Walk
Atlantic City, NJ
Phone: (609) 343-0081
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 40 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

# Princeton Forrestal Village Shops and Restaurants
Princeton, NJ
Phone: 609-799-7400
Smart Shopper Review:
This Center has 13 TRUE Factory Outlet Stores.

[MoorestownResident]

The wealth is still very much in North Jersey according to the list of 100 wealthiest counties in the usa.

1.Hunterdon NJ
7.Somerset NJ
8.Morris NJ
20.Bergen NJ
26.Monmouth NJ
58.Sussex NJ
93.Union NJ
100. Burlington-wealthiest county in south jersey.

Burlington and Mercer both rank in the Top 9 counties in NJ, the wealthiest state in the nation and it should be noted there is less than $10K difference between 4-10. In other words, very little difference and the data are not current. FYI, In the 1980s, Burlington and Mercer were nowhere near Top 100 in the nation.

Burlington County Five-Year Percentage Growth in Employment

Employment for all industries has increased by 7.7 percent from 2001 (2nd Quarter). These figures are greater than percent in New Jersey, which experienced a gain of 0.7 percent since the 2nd Quarter of 2001. The gains were greater than than the gain seen for the United States of 2.6 percent.

[rainrock]

Progess at last. So its apparent you've conceded on your ridiculous claim that the 4 South Jersey counties are superior to the 4 Pa suburban counties. Now you are trying spin a Pa vs. NJ debate, well have fun with that as I have little interest in getting into that debate. Altough it must be said that NJ's wealth is overwhelmingly due to 2 other states NY and Pa. but I digress.

[rainrock]

FedStats: MapStats

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

'Rocker is living in denial and while being uninformed about SJ, he actually should be pleasantly surprised about what he doesn't know as it bodes well for the future of the region.

I do agree that having a healthy SJ is a great thing for the entire region. I dont agree with you that SJ is superior to the 4 suburban PA counties though.And perhaps its you, not I, that is in denial.




Per capita income 2005

1.Montgomery County- $54,293
2.Chester County-$50,787
3.Bucks County-$44,945
4.Delaware County-$42,008
5.Burlington County-$40,520
6. Camden County-$36,297
7.Gloucester County-$34,803
8. Salem County-$33,146