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Old 04-28-2015, 12:20 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
22,857 posts, read 28,229,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
As you should know First impressions can seal a visitors opinion of a city the visit. Philly IS the Row Home Capital of the Nation. Baltimore no doubt close but smaller DC in DC proper to a degree but it is small compared to surrounding DC proper which gets suburban quick. Boston had Quaint Colonial neighborhoods foe sure. But again... early in the 20th century left Row Homes more foe Triple Decker's. Parts of Old Philly Center City even towards University City still have very narrow streets and Rows. Quaint and Lovely as it has Gentrified today to.

Some visit Philly NOT specifically for Center City? They still may see mostly Rows in many varieties where they do? Or Half-Doubles. They outside the Northeast/All of PA. See much less. Or merely some oldest sections of their big cities? Philly still is nearly 60% Rows. Not counting Half Doubles. Not considered Rows. I kinda do though as a sub-group style of Rows? I know technically.... they are NOT. Plenty of half-doubles and Rows in my Hometown also. To the sidewalks.

It still comes down to Perspectives. Preferences and preferred Attributes in living? That they see in a Philly visit? Compared to Home.

Like I noted.. I was YOUNG when I first moved and lived in Chicago from small town PA, and then visited Philly. I couldn't help but notice. Completely different choices of City Layout to housing varieties most common, and my assessment was made. Midwestern or Western cities do not have Colonial Era neighborhoods. But late 1800s yes. Philly was still doing Rows. When other cities already chose singles. Chicago's Bungalow Belt began in 1910. Before that the Cottage single was still common over Rows for the masses.

Sadly... Detroit was a example of basically a non-Row home city. That still fell out of favor for economic and Racial reasons. It too unless our economy crashes again? Will also bounce back.

This was my LOOOOOONG Comment and pictures on another thread on If Philly is still more Urban then Chicago..... it also has one side of the city and Downtown? Cut off by Lake Michigan, and for census counting of 1- 2 square miles from a cities, City Hall is their Downtown. Chicago has a large Park and Harbor in Lake Michigan to include. Even NYC Water in their area counted.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs-city/2344334-philly-more-urban-than-chicago-15.html#post39393165
Half double? Are you referring to twins?

First off, Philadelphia did not have an equivalent of the Chicago fire. Chicago would have a very different look if the fire hadn't happened.

Second, Chicago had the stock yards while Philadelphia had mills. This led to different housing stock. Chicago grew from foreign immigration as well as domestic immigration.

I was doing research on the family of a cousin of one of my great-great grandmothers because of something that happened in the 1880s when they were in a twin on Montgomery Ave. in north Philadelphia. By the time that that housing was replaced circa 1910, the replacement housing was very plain row houses. Since the people who I was researching had moved on I don't know if this was housing built by a factory or a mill for workers but that was the norm at that time. It wasn't Philadelphia, was a difference in industry.

I also doubt that the people who the OP asked ever saw most of the housing stock. Who knows, maybe they never visited the city. Maybe they passed through PHL. I've known people who consider passing through an airport as a visit to a city.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:40 PM
 
1,527 posts, read 1,380,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallouise View Post
Who makes this kind of thread, anyway? Would one of us go down to the Asheville forum and say something like " 'everyone' says [something negative] about your town. Why?" I don't think we would. It would be an exercise in futility, much like this thread has been.
I would. Specifically as someone who is interested enough to look into living in your city one day.

That and general curiosity. Personally I think Philly looks like a great city for both visiting and living. I figured people who actually live in the city are more inclined to know what's both good and bad about where they live. Possibly why others would or wouldn't like it.

Especially since I'd think people that care enough to actually post to a forum would have more curiosity than most.

I see cities as being more than a collection of row houses, or skylines, or population/other statistics. They are living organic things full of people who relate to them. How they do so is interesting IMO and informs you of place beyond the basics.

Anyway, if you want to fault me for anything I'd say I should have provided a better context, but the question itself is certainly valid.
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Old 04-28-2015, 04:05 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,554,647 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Half double? Are you referring to twins?

First off, Philadelphia did not have an equivalent of the Chicago fire. Chicago would have a very different look if the fire hadn't happened.

Second, Chicago had the stock yards while Philadelphia had mills. This led to different housing stock. Chicago grew from foreign immigration as well as domestic immigration.

I was doing research on the family of a cousin of one of my great-great grandmothers because of something that happened in the 1880s when they were in a twin on Montgomery Ave. in north Philadelphia. By the time that that housing was replaced circa 1910, the replacement housing was very plain row houses. Since the people who I was researching had moved on I don't know if this was housing built by a factory or a mill for workers but that was the norm at that time. It wasn't Philadelphia, was a difference in industry.

I also doubt that the people who the OP asked ever saw most of the housing stock. Who knows, maybe they never visited the city. Maybe they passed through PHL. I've known people who consider passing through an airport as a visit to a city.
Well if you did research? But I live in the Susquehanna Valley PA. Every small town has Rows and .....they are called here. Half-Doubles.... here if a side-by-side residence then disconnect. They are not classified as Singles. Nor Rows. But the Mid-Atlantic region followed, Philly's example? It too followed mostly British or UK housing of he Masses..... Row Homes.

To me it was PHILLY FOLLOWING BRITISH URBAN LANDSCAPE NOT KIND OF INDUSTRY THERE. Also I read that TO BUILD THE CHEAPEST HOUSING FOR THE MASSES COULD AFFORD TO OWN. WAS A REASON TO.

By me, is also the Anthracite Coal Region. Many homes Coal companies built even. All wood no fire walls Fires happen half the block goes. Not just the old coal towns either....ALL small older towns of especially the Eastern half of PA. Area had men working in mines and women in garment mills. Other towns that had neither still did rows.

I honestly though? See NO correlation to what types of industry, a City had to What became its DOMINATE varieties of housing a City chose? That was City PLANNERS, Industrialist, and Architects. Did not matter either on what ethnic group settled a neighborhood? I found in Chicago.... each era or wealth status a neighborhood had? Is what Determined the housing varieties there. Also the Old Stock Yards were on Chicago's Southside. But both the North side and South side. Have similar housing styles. As the city grew in different decades. Same Cottage styles to Bungalows to Greytones. Singles to 2-3 flats are the same through the 60s era styles across the whole city.

What city planners had was YES a new start after the Great Fire of 1871. They chose Housing that resisted Rows and no Tenement styles of NYC. More brick became standard. Layout with a bit wider street grid and frontage became standard and full Alley system. Later even streets were raised and homes that exist today. The city was swampy at one time. The densest old neighborhoods are North and Northwest of Downtown.

Also the Bungalow era was decades after the Fire, beginning in 1910 to 1940. It was influenced by the American Architect... Frank Lloyd Wright and Chicago new school of American Architects .... and the Craftsman Bungalow was born for the masses. Rows were not considered. The Bungalow belt is 1/3 of the city.

Perhaps you want to explain further? What the Stock Yards had to do with it? St Louis had Stock Yards too. They still had more Rows then Chicago. Cleveland and Detroit also some Rows but mostly not by far. Pittsburgh continued Rows on the PA side.

True from the Air... the heart of Philly is clearly seen as tight Rows with far less green then the outlier areas of the city, and of course its suburbs.

I may as well post pictures and see if they get deleted..... on a Philly side of threads

Philly as viewed From high-up NJ on top.⤵



Now Philly Across portion of City Overview ⤵⤵⤵



Chicago Skyline from the South looking North⤵⤵⤵



Chicago North Part of Downtown, North of the Loop business district in above picture ⤴ ⤴⤴

Mostly Residential in this part of Downtown. Loft area on right below High-Rises , barely seen. ⤵⤵⤵



Chicago from High-up over NORTH-SIDE OF CITY toward WHOLE DOWNTOWN SCOPE AND GOLD COAST. ⤵⤵

WRIGLEY FIELD IN CENTER JUST ABOVE AND BETWEEN THE DARKER GREEN PARK AND DOWNTOWN ⤵⤵⤵ NOTICE ALL THE GREEN IN NEIGHBORHOODS... BECAUSE OF HUGE TREES THAT RISE SO HIGH⤵

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Old 04-28-2015, 09:35 PM
 
5,314 posts, read 5,503,386 times
Reputation: 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallouise View Post
Hey guys,

Hows about we just let this one die? No matter what explanation anyone gives, it's going to be rebutted with a "gee, that doesn't sound like any of the people I've heard this from". So let's just agree to disagree with the OP, because this is not getting anywhere.

Who makes this kind of thread, anyway? Would one of us go down to the Asheville forum and say something like " 'everyone' says [something negative] about your town. Why?" I don't think we would. It would be an exercise in futility, much like this thread has been.
This. /thread
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Old 04-29-2015, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Florida
4,574 posts, read 6,176,114 times
Reputation: 7697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Port Pitt Ash View Post
I would. Specifically as someone who is interested enough to look into living in your city one day.

That and general curiosity. Personally I think Philly looks like a great city for both visiting and living. I figured people who actually live in the city are more inclined to know what's both good and bad about where they live. Possibly why others would or wouldn't like it.

Especially since I'd think people that care enough to actually post to a forum would have more curiosity than most.

I see cities as being more than a collection of row houses, or skylines, or population/other statistics. They are living organic things full of people who relate to them. How they do so is interesting IMO and informs you of place beyond the basics.

Anyway, if you want to fault me for anything I'd say I should have provided a better context, but the question itself is certainly valid.
Because of the way you asked the question, of course people will get defensive. "What's to like about your city, no one else likes it" - type of thing. I thought you were actually trolling....maybe you're not, but really, we are supposed to be mind-readers on why random unknown people that you have questioned don't like our city? We have no idea. What's more, we don't care. Philadelphians know what a great city it is.
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:23 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,554,647 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon08 View Post
Because of the way you asked the question, of course people will get defensive. "What's to like about your city, no one else likes it" - type of thing. I thought you were actually trolling....maybe you're not, but really, we are supposed to be mind-readers on why random unknown people that you have questioned don't like our city? We have no idea. What's more, we don't care. Philadelphians know what a great city it is.
I merely added a aspect why some people who visit Philly. Might say "but would never live there" ? It's not because the did not see interesting and vibrant aspects. I pointed out... that some DO NOT find Row Homes Appealing? Doesn't matter they can choose all kinds of styles and singles especially in outlier areas of the city. The can be a people person without that closeness. If use to something different.

Too many get up in arms as if the city is totally being demeaned and mocked? They only want Philly self-complements and greatness, new construction and never a comment viewed as less? Because this thread ask and is why many would "not fall head over heels, in luv with the city". I can comment. You want the thread it closed basically, because it's seen as un-complementary ?

Some people say they never would live in NYC. You get similar responses from New Yorkers... Basically "how dare you.... we are the greatest city on earth" kind of response? Though not them words LOL.
Philly is Craving National ,even world attention? For how renewal and gentrification, is transforming Center City and surrounding neighborhoods. And a new skyline appearing. I get that.

I hope ALL our cities continue to renew and restore, moving forward from declines of the past .
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Old 04-29-2015, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,921 posts, read 10,703,773 times
Reputation: 8111
^Ugh, you're always so off-base, Steeps. I think you missed the point completely.

How are we really supposed to know how random people not from here feel about living in this city? Especially if they have never lived here, and it's all just their own feelings and perceptions.

Obviously most people on the Philadelphia forum enjoy living here and choose to live here.

Personally I have heard the quip about "I love to visit but could never live there" about so many places-NYC, Florida, Hawaii, LA, etc. It's always due to personal preference. I don't know why so many people seem to wish for everyone to like and dislike the same places and things. We don't.

If I were the OP I would just press the question further to those answering. Even if they just admit that their conceptions of this city are based on reputation (or lack thereof) or stereotypes.
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Old 04-29-2015, 08:55 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,554,647 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
^Ugh, you're always so off-base, Steeps. I think you missed the point completely.

How are we really supposed to know how random people not from here feel about living in this city? Especially if they have never lived here, and it's all just their own feelings and perceptions.

Obviously most people on the Philadelphia forum enjoy living here and choose to live here.

Personally I have heard the quip about "I love to visit but could never live there" about so many places-NYC, Florida, Hawaii, LA, etc. It's always due to personal preference. I don't know why so many people seem to wish for everyone to like and dislike the same places and things. We don't.

If I were the OP I would just press the question further to those answering. Even if they just admit that their conceptions of this city are based on reputation (or lack thereof) or stereotypes.
So you understand now... some posted them here. I said Row homes and it's not possible? I mean really. Some wouldn't want to choose Philly because of it?

A thread is created that "Philly surpasses downtown Chicago in population". I defended Chicago, knowing it. With statistics on its downtown growth from nothing. Had pictures of areas added to downtown in the past. Because it looked it and warranted. Proceeded to show Grant Park and Lake Michigan Harbor were a 1/3 of the area counted by the census using 1-2 square miles.

Of course I got numbers still stand for Philly surpasses downtown Chicago.... and that's it? Then because that thread was in ...general US and City vs. City side. A similar thread leaving Chicago off the thread topic name... this time . But the OP there did mention it in the message box. Now any who want to not BUTT-PAT each other on Philly is second? They tell them to "go to the other thread" they want to die. The Moderator too. So then you can just block out any who disagree short of Philly is Awesome.

Well apparently you can visit a rural farming area in Iowa? Then NEVER say "But I would never want to live there"? It's not about.. as you say ... disliking the place, Philly you like and Love.... I get it. It's that some people MERELY PREFER another form of housing, to environment and more spacing etc.

As for ALL ....LOVING WHERE THEY LIVE? Some Poor surely feel stuck in their tight, higher crime declined neighborhood? Even in the shadow of Philly's vibrancy of Center City and gentrified areas? Sure it can be said of other cities too ? Some may feel stick... some chose and happy totally. But ... just don't say it in the Philly forums here about Philly.

As for me stereotyping Philly. I live among Rows and half-doubles. I don't assume anything about them. As for what is Downtown. Even in these Philly threads? Locals disagree with some stretching downtown to Tasker up to Girald for the numbers? Of Course Row home neighborhoods boost the numbers. Chicago gets Grant Park over a mile long and into the Harbor to count? When a perfect square from City Hall is used.

In the end??? What they go away with..... IS THEIR OWN FEELINGS AND PERCEPTIONS OF A VISIT.(from your quote) JUST DON'T EXPRESS IT IF NOT.... GREAT, AWESOME AND CAN'T WAIT TO MOVE THERE?
Also you can't call it stereotyping? If they literally saw the wrong side of Philly or merely compare it directly to another. All are aspects of the city. Same for other cities... I WILL SAY SOME CITIES HIDE THEIRS BETTER, OR IT'S CONFINED TO AREAS VISITORS NEVER VENTURE OR ONE SIDE IF THEIR CITY. NOT EVERY DIRECTION.
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Old 04-29-2015, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,921 posts, read 10,703,773 times
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^You, and anyone else, are free to express what you don't like about Philly, rowhomes or whatever else. In fact you have been doing just that for weeks now. Moderators try to keep discussions on topic, and you do seem to bring rowhomes into any and all topics.

*shoulder shrug*

All I'm saying is that your preferences as well as mine don't have to belong to anyone else. There is no need to say how "most people" feel. Are there people that would not want to live in Philly because they don't like rowhomes and are not aware that nearly 40% of homes in Philly are not rowhomes? Of course.

Why does it seem like you just arbitrarily throw question marks throughout your posts?
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Old 04-29-2015, 11:52 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,539 posts, read 2,554,647 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
^You, and anyone else, are free to express what you don't like about Philly, rowhomes or whatever else. In fact you have been doing just that for weeks now. Moderators try to keep discussions on topic, and you do seem to bring rowhomes into any and all topics.

*shoulder shrug*

All I'm saying is that your preferences as well as mine don't have to belong to anyone else. There is no need to say how "most people" feel. Are there people that would not want to live in Philly because they don't like rowhomes and are not aware that nearly 40% of homes in Philly are not rowhomes? Of course.

Why does it seem like you just arbitrarily throw question marks throughout your posts?
This is the topic ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Port Pitt Ash View Post
So whenever I ask someone about Philly they say, "It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there."

Without fail. Everybody I've talked to about it says this.

Why?
I stated some do not like the tightness of Row homes. I gave pictures of Philly. Yes and Chicago in comparison. I stated how other cities chose far less Rows? Or left that era and style of housing, long before Philly. Even Boston. I the was told it was because on Philly and Mill industry... vs. Chicago because of Stock Yards, for Bungalows? I knew that really isn't it. Stated reasons why.

Then "Southbound" stated this

Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Half double? Are you referring to twins?

First off, Philadelphia did not have an equivalent of the Chicago fire. Chicago would have a very different look if the fire hadn't happened.

Second, Chicago had the stock yards while Philadelphia had mills. This led to different housing stock. Chicago grew from foreign immigration as well as domestic immigration.

I was doing research on the family of a cousin of one of my great-great grandmothers because of something that happened in the 1880s when they were in a twin on Montgomery Ave. in north Philadelphia. By the time that that housing was replaced circa 1910, the replacement housing was very plain row houses. Since the people who I was researching had moved on I don't know if this was housing built by a factory or a mill for workers but that was the norm at that time. It wasn't Philadelphia, was a difference in industry.

I also doubt that the people who the OP asked ever saw most of the housing stock. Who knows, maybe they never visited the city. Maybe they passed through PHL. I've known people who consider passing through an airport as a visit to a city.
So I addressed that... I knew it was not about the Industries of the Cities. It was planners, industrialist and Architects. Philly continued British Rows Chicago did not.
He said Philly went to PLAIN ROWS IN 1910? I noted Chicago's Vast Frank Lloyd Wright inspired Bungalow belt, began also in 1910 too. So both cites chose styles not because of industry kinds or ethnicity then.
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