The Phillies this season (Washington, Howard: insurance, cost, title)

[Phil A. Delphia]

Originally Posted by rainrock

Well the Phillies are not last in attendance but they are bottom 1/3. Far cry from 2007-2011.

If you had clicked my link to Baseball-Reference, one of the elite stats sources anywhere, you could have learned the truth. When I posted the info a couple days ago, the Phils were last in the NL in attendance. They have since moved up to 14th in the NL. Here's the current snapshot:

[BeerGeek40]

That game on Saturday was a lot of fun and the season itself has been much better than expected.
This starting pitching staff can rival any in baseball, but they do need another hitter or two. Hopefully that can be addressed in the offseason via free agency.

[2002 Subaru]

Originally Posted by rainrock

Well the Phillies are not last in attendance but they are bottom 1/3. Far cry from 2007-2011.

Fair weather? Maybe so but the owners and organization reap what they sow. Provide the Phillies fans with a standout product and they will support you like no other.

Give the Phillies fans Slop to watch the last 4 years and they will turn you off. I have no problem with Phillies fans voicing their displeasure by not paying their hard earned money to watch a terrible product.

And Im not fooled by this smoke and mirror act. This house of cards is going to be collapsing soon.

The Phillies owners began a $5 BILLION dollar Tv deal this season with Comcast. 2/3 of their roster is making the MLB minimum salary. How cheap can these miser owners be?

They're in a rebuilding phase with a lot of young players. That's why so many of them are making the minimum.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by Phil A. Delphia

If you had clicked my link to Baseball-Reference, one of the elite stats sources anywhere, you could have learned the truth.

Phil. You have to use average attendance in such a discussion,total home attendance is irrelevant,Phils were just on a 12 day road trip..

The Phillies are /have been about 20th in avg home attendance this year. Its bad bit its not last.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by 2002 Subaru

They're in a rebuilding phase with a lot of young players. That's why so many of them are making the minimum.

Who are you rebuilding with? Herrera/Franco/Nola/Valasquez? Ok theres 4 solid rebuilding pieces.

25 Man roster though. Phillies have a $5 BILLION TV deal to improve. No need for these other guys who have been around that seems like forever(Glavis/hernandez/Ruf/Asche/Morgan etc etc

Philly is the largest market in the USA withv one baseball team. When they are winning they lead MLB in attendance and TV ratings. Its a juggernaut of a market and ownership needs to start taking advantage of that.

What are these ididots doing with 2/3 of the roster making MLB minimum salaries. Go Buy some talent like the Dodgers and Red Sox do every year.

Phillies fans deserve so much better than the slop theyve been given the past 4-5 years.

Goeddel + Bourjos should' be Lehigh Valley but they were the Phillies big offseason moves. I mean its a joke.

[2002 Subaru]

rainrock asked: "Who are you rebuilding with?" - Yes, Nola, Velasquez, Herrera and Franco are a good start. But, they also have young hurlers Jerad Eickhoff, Adam Morgan, Colton Murray and Hector Neris trying to prove themselves. And Jeremy Hellickson is only 29, he may be worth keeping around for four more years if he proves himself. Minor leaguers Jake Thompson and Mark Appel will also get a shot at the rotation at some point soon.
Freddy Galvis and Cameron Rupp aren't everyday players, but I believe they can be part of a winning 25 man roster. Keep them around. Tommy Joseph is getting his shot at 1B, let's see what he can do.
SS J.P Crawford, C Jorge Alfaro, and OFs Roman Quinn and Nick Williams are waiting in the wings ... hopefully they'll be part of a potent offense.


rainrock stated: "Go buy some talent like the Dodgers and Red Sox do every year." - The Dodgers haven't won since 1981, that's 35 years ago. And, yes, the Red Sox have had great success since 2004, winning three times, but they've also had some homegrown pieces in place (same as the Cardinals), much like the great Yankees teams in 1996, 1998, 1999 and 2000. And the Cubs always spent money on big name free agents and they haven't won since 1908 ... They decided to go homegrown, and -boom - they're a serious contender.
Depending solely on free agents every year seldom works (see 1997 and 2003 Marlins for the few times it has), it makes more sense to build a core, then fill in the gaps with free agents and rent-a-players.
I think once the Phillies see what they have at home, they'll do exactly that ... It seems like they're following the winning formula of the Royals and Giants, which is a good thing. Once they become a serious threat, they should be good for 5,6,7 years.
Just like the people who constantly want to throw money into the Philadelphia Public School System (how's that working out?), winning begins at home. Money isn't always the answer.


rainrock posted: "Goeddel and Bourjos should' be Lehigh Valley but they were the Phillies big offseason moves. I mean its a joke." - This is a rebuilding year, those two are only here until the real talent arrives from the minors. Why waste money on veteran big name free agents? It wouldn't make any sense. Goeddel was a Rule 5 pick in 2015, btw.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by 2002 Subaru

This is a rebuilding year, those two are only here until the real talent arrives from the minors.

What happens if the " Real Talent" are busts?

Originally Posted by 2002 Subaru

Why waste money on veteran big name free agents? It wouldn't make any sense.

Why on earth would you be wasting money by adding veteran talent? If your management team knows what they are doing they should be able to add players that will be a great advantage to the Phillies/


IMO what doesnt make sense is to have a $5 B TV deal and give your fans a team full of utility players, minor leaguers and washed up veterans.



As far as the Dodgers? It was 88 not 81 for their last championship but they are in the thick of things every year. They dont rebuild they reload which is what the Phillies should be doing.

[2002 Subaru]

Originally Posted by rainrock

What happens if the " Real Talent" are busts?





Why on earth would you be wasting money by adding veteran talent? If your management team knows what they are doing they should be able to add players that will be a great advantage to the Phillies/


IMO what doesnt make sense is to have a $5 B TV deal and give your fans a team full of utility players, minor leaguers and washed up veterans.



As far as the Dodgers? It was 88 not 81 for their last championship but they are in the thick of things every year. They dont rebuild they reload which is what the Phillies should be doing.

rainrock asked: "What happens if the 'real talent' are busts?" - You start over until you get it right.


rainrock asked: "Why on earth would you be wasting money by adding veteran talent?" - Then why didn't they just keep Cole Hamels? As I've stated before, they'll add pieces of the puzzle when they see what they have at home first. They'll pay their homegrown talent when the time comes ... They've haven't been cheap with their own in a long time.


Ok, you got me with the '88 Dodgers - make that 28 years instead of 35. I was wrong. Apparently 'reloading' doesn't really work ... I'll stick with the Royals, Cardinals and Giants formula.
Remember the 2008 Phillies World Champions? Howard - homegrown, Utley - homegrown, Rollins - homegrown, Ruiz - homegrown, Burrell - homegrown, Hamels - homegrown, Myers - homegrown, Victorino - Rule 5, Werth - Picked up for cheap. Maybe the Dodgers should copy the Phillies and Giants? LOL!


rainrock stated: "IMO what doesn't make sense is to have a $5 B TV deal and give your fans a team full of utility players, minor leaguers and washed up veterans." - Real Phillies fans know and accept what the team is trying to accomplish. You're the only one I've heard complaining and suggesting they do otherwise.


.500 and a third place finish behind the Nationals and Mets this season would be a huge step in the right direction.

[2002 Subaru]

Originally Posted by rainrock

Despite the wins its a very boring team to watch.

Wins never bore me. Never. I appreciate good pitching and defense.

[Phil A. Delphia]

Originally Posted by rainrock

What happens if the " Real Talent" are busts?





Why on earth would you be wasting money by adding veteran talent? If your management team knows what they are doing they should be able to add players that will be a great advantage to the Phillies/


IMO what doesnt make sense is to have a $5 B TV deal and give your fans a team full of utility players, minor leaguers and washed up veterans.



As far as the Dodgers? It was 88 not 81 for their last championship but they are in the thick of things every year. They dont rebuild they reload which is what the Phillies should be doing.

The dominating Phillies teams from several seasons ago cost the organization depth in the farm system. They had to trade away prospects to address needs and for many years were at the bottom of the draft; sometimes without a first round pick. If you annually win, lose draft status and picks, and trade what few prospects you have - while keeping the payroll high - you become what the Yankees are.

Or what the Phillies were from 12-15.

Rebuilding is a process. It takes time - years- to rebuild a farm system. Offensively, there hasnt been much appealing on the free agent market the last few years anyway. Did you really want the Phils to commit $100M to Justin Upton and lose the top overall pick in the draft, along with that pick's slot money (which affects the rest of a team's draft)?

I'll grant you this: It would probably be helpful if the Phils acquired one middle of the order bat, so long as it only costs money or some of the lesser-regarded prospects; no draft pics and no top prospects. The reason I think this is because it would make the big league transition easier for Williams, Crawford, Randolph, etc. if they could come up and not have to be vital right away. Not everyone adjusts quickly like Franco did. If they were to trade for Matt Kemp from SD and the best prospect they have to part with is Roman Quinn, I'd get that. There'd be protection for Franco and someone to file their call-ups around when they are individually ready for a shot. For the same reasons it would have made sense to try to land Cespedes last winter, as he required no draft pick compensation to sign him - the only sacrifice is the money to the player. I doubt a player in his prime would want to sign with a team at the beginning of a rebuild, so the Phils would have to had offered 7 years and almost $200M. Not worth it. At all.

Players and certainly agents know that Philly has just begun their new cable money deal. When the time is right (the 18 offseason most likely) the Phils will step up and be offseason players. Right now the most important thing is this upcoming draft. Add a great draft and a few international signings to the solid prospects already in the system, and the Phillies will have one of the most fertile systems in the game (They're already top 10.). Right now I suggest you just enjoy the watching the young guys as they come up and play with an energy that's been lacking the last couple of years. Come 18/19, everyone will pleased and rewarded for being patient with the rebuilding process.