Philly suburbs with sizable numbers of blacks & Puerto ricans (Philadelphia: middle-class, renters)

[qworldorder]

Originally Posted by 1ondoner

You raise an important point regarding whites moving into areas with minorities. To me this is not the same or the opposite as minorities moving into Caucasian areas. Reason being, immigration/relocation is usually driven by economic benefits. So, if there is an economic benefit of doing so, then I'm absolutely in favor of it.

So should whites relocate to minorities areas? Yes. If it's a step up the economic ladder. My case for integration is solely based on economic advancement.

Regarding interracial dating, it's harder for 2 people from different cultures. However, this will become a less of an issue if the communities are well integrated.

Right, and I hear you, but why are those economic benefits, the very best of them, reserved mainly for whites/white communities? Even well-to-do immigrant groups who do well in this country often hit glass ceilings, be it the job market, dating or housing. That ties into the point I was getting at earlier about systemic racism, intentional or otherwise, and inequality keeping minorities disadvantaged.

And when whites do move into minority areas, gentrification often occurs, thus kicking out those minorities and keeping the cycle going. Why does gentrification occur? Because the economic capital and opportunities between whites and minorities, especially darker skinned minorities, remains unequal. Many folks simply can't afford to stay. Most (not all) whites have more money and opportunity than most minorities, especially people of color, whether they realize it or not. It's like a sick game of musical chairs. Much of it isn't intentional or malicious either, so don't think I'm in "blame whitey" mode, but it happens. It's a complex, multi-layered problem that won't be solved overnight.

But I disagree with you that residential integration should have to be the sole way for minorities for economic advancement. That's a double standard when whites clearly don't have to. Thriving ethnic and racial communities can occur, that are still integrated with larger society. I have no problem with the "work and play together, live separately" mentality--that's natural. I'm in an interracial relationship myself (Afro-Latino/South Asian), but I don't think our communities would necessarily have to live together to completely get along or economically advance.

[1ondoner]

I hadn't thought of gentrification as the reverse although this is true. So without venturing further into race issues, I think gentrification is good although it creates other issues which I think are mainly due to resentment of new comers into the community.

If Bill Gates wants to move into my neighborhood, I would gladly welcome him because I think his move may attract other more desirable characters into my neighbor and improve the value of our neighborhood networks. Unfortunately, some people will not see it the way I do. It's how one reacts that makes a difference. IMHO, humans are like animals, they can be territorial, even when it's to their own detriment.

Originally Posted by qworldorder

Right, and I hear you, but why are those economic benefits, the very best of them, reserved mainly for whites/white communities? Even well-to-do immigrant groups who do well in this country often hit glass ceilings, be it the job market, dating or housing. That ties into the point I was getting at earlier about systemic racism, intentional or otherwise, and inequality keeping minorities disadvantaged.

And when whites do move into minority areas, gentrification often occurs, thus kicking out those minorities and keeping the cycle going. Why does gentrification occur? Because the economic capital and opportunities between whites and minorities, especially darker skinned minorities, remains unequal. Many folks simply can't afford to stay. Most (not all) whites have more money and opportunity than most minorities, especially people of color, whether they realize it or not. It's like a sick game of musical chairs. Much of it isn't intentional or malicious either, so don't think I'm in "blame whitey" mode, but it happens. It's a complex, multi-layered problem that won't be solved overnight.

But I disagree with you that residential integration should have to be the sole way for minorities for economic advancement. That's a double standard when whites clearly don't have to. Thriving ethnic and racial communities can occur, that are still integrated with larger society. I have no problem with the "work and play together, live separately" mentality--that's natural. I'm in an interracial relationship myself (Afro-Latino/South Asian), but I don't think our communities would necessarily have to live together to completely get along or economically advance.

[BR Valentine]

Originally Posted by BK_PHL_DEL

The thing that bothers me about the NYT article is that they don't delve into how Asian students and communities fare; they were part of the main chart of data with Whites/Blacks/Hispanics. Asian communities have existed for decades (Chinatowns) and don't face the same magnitude of blight and crime and neglect as other minority communities. I don't think Asian communities should integrate; their socioeconomic status is strong enough by itself to maintain the community for a long time. This is a good local example of it:

PlanPhilly | Philadelphia Chinatown Development Corporation at 50

Asians weren't used as the comparison group by the study authors because Asian children are a very small portion (5%) of US public school enrollment. Put another way there are 3x as many black students and 6x as many Hispanic students as Asian students.

[qworldorder]

Originally Posted by 1ondoner

I hadn't thought of gentrification as the reverse although this is true. So without venturing further into race issues, I think gentrification is good although it creates other issues which I think are mainly due to resentment of new comers into the community.

If Bill Gates wants to move into my neighborhood, I would gladly welcome him because I think his move may attract other more desirable characters into my neighbor and improve the value of our neighborhood networks. Unfortunately, some people will not see it the way I do. It's how one reacts that makes a difference. IMHO, humans are like animals, they can be territorial, even when it's to their own detriment.

True, and I don't want to delve further into racial issues, either--that's best reserved for the Politics forum. I will say that I have mixed feelings about gentrification, and in your Bill Gates example, I would be fine with it if the move of those individuals didn't drastically hike up residential prices and displace residents. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to happen in practice.

[DarkLoFan]

lol okay fellas back to the original topic please ... I'm lookin for suburbs and small cities in SE PA with significant numbers of blacks and hispanics, where can I find this? The only town mentioned was Norristown, I'm sure there's more then just that. Btw we are not poor but not well-off either, I would say we are a working-class (or lower middle class) family.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by DarkLoFan

lol okay fellas back to the original topic please ... I'm lookin for suburbs and small cities in SE PA with significant numbers of blacks and hispanics, where can I find this? The only town mentioned was Norristown, I'm sure there's more then just that. Btw we are not poor but not well-off either, I would say we are a working-class (or lower middle class) family.

Actually Norristown may be the best example we can give you. What you are looking for doesn't really exist in the suburbs and I would never suggest that you move to, say, Chester.

Norristown, which is the county seat of Montgomery Co., is close to King of Prussia and Plymouth Meeting which are good areas. You will be close to some of the best shopping in the entire Philly metro area for instance.

Although black people have lived in the Phila. suburbs for over a century, there have never been large numbers of blacks in the burbs. I'm black. I grew in the burbs as did my mother. So I have personal experience.

Most of the demographic you'd like to live around are concentrated in the city proper.

[toobusytoday]

Originally Posted by DarkLoFan

What Philly suburbs and smaller SE PA cities have significant numbers of blacks and hispanics/Puerto Ricans? I'm specifically asking about Montgomery and Delaware counties. But I'm also open to Chester and Bucks. I'm black and my husband is Rican, were leaving North Jersey for the Philly area but rather the suburbs over city life. so what suburbs and small cities in SE PA have large numbers of blacks and Ricans?

Kennett Square in Chester county has a large population of Hispanics: Kennett High School in Kennett Square PA - SchoolDigger.com

[hellavajewel]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Actually Norristown may be the best example we can give you. What you are looking for doesn't really exist in the suburbs and I would never suggest that you move to, say, Chester.

Norristown, which is the county seat of Montgomery Co., is close to King of Prussia and Plymouth Meeting which are good areas. You will be close to some of the best shopping in the entire Philly metro area for instance.

Although black people have lived in the Phila. suburbs for over a century, there have never been large numbers of blacks in the burbs. I'm black. I grew in the burbs as did my mother. So I have personal experience.

Most of the demographic you'd like to live around are concentrated in the city proper.

As a newbie to Philadelphia city area. The same seems to hold true. As a city girl that l enjoys living around other middle class African Americans you can not find them in nice neighborhoods unless they are millenials. It is a little disappointing. Good luck in your search.

[1ondoner]

I've cycled a couple of times through Keenet Square. There are many Mexicans, rather than Puerto Ricans. And I believe they mostly work in the mushroom farms. I stand to be corrected

Originally Posted by toobusytoday

Kennett Square in Chester county has a large population of Hispanics: Kennett High School in Kennett Square PA - SchoolDigger.com

[toobusytoday]

Originally Posted by 1ondoner

I've cycled a couple of times through Keenet Square. There are many Mexicans, rather than Puerto Ricans. And I believe they mostly work in the mushroom farms. I stand to be corrected

You are correct. I didn't look back at the OP that mentioned Puerto Ricans, just the post above that calls out Hispanics.