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View Poll Results: Is "Old Philadelphia" on its way out?
Yes, it is most definitely on its way out! 2 9.09%
No, "Old Philadelphia" is here to stay. 5 22.73%
There are traces of it still present, but it will eventually fade away, 15 68.18%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-15-2016, 12:25 AM
 
Location: The City of Brotherly Love
1,295 posts, read 1,214,218 times
Reputation: 3492

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Before I begin, I would like to define "Old Philadelphia". "Old Philadelphia", to me, is the collection of symbolic vestiges that have held Philadelphia back from achieving its greatest potential. This is not limited to: corrupt politicians (too many to name), slumlords (Richard Basciano), NIMBYs, and all types of Negadelphians.

I have lived in the Philadelphia area for all but the past 3 years since I was born in 1995. During my childhood, I briefly lived in the Mill Creek neighborhood in West Philadelphia from 2002-2006. From what I remember as a child, living in Philadelphia had a negative connotation to it. I would frequently hear the city be referred to as "Killadelphia", "Philthydelphia", and many other names that outsiders would call it. The period of time in which I lived in Philly also had a high murder rate (2005), the population was still declining, and all kinds of people would rave about how they would never move there. I disliked Philly for a good period of my childhood, as I believed that it was a boring, dangerous, dirty place that I could never see myself living in. I believed that I would live in the suburbs for the rest of my life.

The date is now August 15, 2016, I'm a completely different person, and my city has made tremendous strides since my childhood. Ever since I began following the New Urbanist movement around 2012-2013, I realized that Philadelphia is an amazing city, and one in which I would love to live in. Our skyline is rapidly growing upwards and outwards (and backwards with the 30th Street Station District Plan), entire neighborhoods have been/are being reconstructed, young hipsters and older empty-nesters alike are repopulating the city, our amenities are better than ever, job growth has exceeded population growth, and there seems to be a huge aura of optimism engulfing the city. Hell, my 21st birthday is on August 29th, and I'm still deciding which beer garden to celebrate at (leaning towards Skygarten). There are so many ways to have fun in Philly, that it is crazy!

What was the point of writing all of that, especially my personal viewpoints and including my life story? Because many, MANY people feel a very similar way!

I believe that Philadelphia is changing for the better. First of all, we Millennials are moving into the city, loving it, staying behind, and starting to raise families. With all of this youth, comes a lot of energy and passion. The Millennials I know are passionate about Philly and want to fight to see it stay on the track it's currently on. Secondly, vestiges of Philly's past corruption are falling down. It brought a smile to my face to see Johnny Doc, Vince Fumo, and Chaka Fattah all go down. Seeing crackdowns on current corrupt Councilpeople (I'm looking at you, Kenyatta Johnson) also makes me very happy. Finally, it seems that even the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, which holds Philly back in so many ways (despite the fact that the Philly area gives more to PA than it gives back), is also finally waking up. Act 89 funding for SEPTA, and the current push for tax reform demonstrate this to me.

So, do you believe that "Old Philadelphia" is on its way out?
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Old 08-15-2016, 07:46 AM
 
Location: New York City
9,338 posts, read 9,197,273 times
Reputation: 6423
I don't believe "Old Philadelphia" will ever disappear, because much of the resurgence is in CC, UCity and surrounding, a good chunk of Philadelphia will likely remain untouched by all this excitement forever.


NIMBYS are found in every city and town, I don't think that defines "Old Philadelphia" however the attitude of many NIMBYS and longtime residents is very negative and provincial, and that is definitely holding the city back.


But overall, I really see Philadelphia especially the core turning into a mini Manhattan (as much as people don't like the comparison). The city is becoming more refined, worldly, wealthier, educated, etc. The main objectives the city needs to focus on is improving the public schools and attracting more high paying jobs/lowering the poverty rate. The city keeps losing out to the suburbs and other major cities in those fields.


I think the area Universities have the power to attract jobs and keep students here after graduation which will continue to fuel the growth.


In a nutshell, I think the city is most definitely on the right track, and we will see more of "New Philadelphia" take over, but I don't think it will diminish the old. Look at NYC, they are a few decades ahead of Phillys development and most of its neighborhoods have a great mix of old and new character.
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Old 08-15-2016, 08:00 AM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,668,524 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post


In a nutshell, I think the city is most definitely on the right track, and we will see more of "New Philadelphia" take over, but I don't think it will diminish the old. Look at NYC, they are a few decades ahead of Phillys development and most of its neighborhoods have a great mix of old and new character.
There's an interesting article in todays's Philly Mag site about a rouge preservationist who takes great issue with how much of the old is not( will probably not) be preserved.
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Old 08-15-2016, 08:10 AM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,668,524 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013 View Post
Before I begin, I would like to define "Old Philadelphia". "Old Philadelphia", to me, is the collection of symbolic vestiges that have held Philadelphia back from achieving its greatest potential. This is not limited to: corrupt politicians (too many to name), slumlords (Richard Basciano), NIMBYs, and all types of Negadelphians.

I have lived in the Philadelphia area for all but the past 3 years since I was born in 1995. During my childhood, I briefly lived in the Mill Creek neighborhood in West Philadelphia from 2002-2006. From what I remember as a child, living in Philadelphia had a negative connotation to it. I would frequently hear the city be referred to as "Killadelphia", "Philthydelphia", and many other names that outsiders would call it. The period of time in which I lived in Philly also had a high murder rate (2005), the population was still declining, and all kinds of people would rave about how they would never move there. I disliked Philly for a good period of my childhood, as I believed that it was a boring, dangerous, dirty place that I could never see myself living in. I believed that I would live in the suburbs for the rest of my life.

The date is now August 15, 2016, I'm a completely different person, and my city has made tremendous strides since my childhood. Ever since I began following the New Urbanist movement around 2012-2013, I realized that Philadelphia is an amazing city, and one in which I would love to live in. Our skyline is rapidly growing upwards and outwards (and backwards with the 30th Street Station District Plan), entire neighborhoods have been/are being reconstructed, young hipsters and older empty-nesters alike are repopulating the city, our amenities are better than ever, job growth has exceeded population growth, and there seems to be a huge aura of optimism engulfing the city. Hell, my 21st birthday is on August 29th, and I'm still deciding which beer garden to celebrate at (leaning towards Skygarten). There are so many ways to have fun in Philly, that it is crazy!

What was the point of writing all of that, especially my personal viewpoints and including my life story? Because many, MANY people feel a very similar way!

I believe that Philadelphia is changing for the better. First of all, we Millennials are moving into the city, loving it, staying behind, and starting to raise families. With all of this youth, comes a lot of energy and passion. The Millennials I know are passionate about Philly and want to fight to see it stay on the track it's currently on. Secondly, vestiges of Philly's past corruption are falling down. It brought a smile to my face to see Johnny Doc, Vince Fumo, and Chaka Fattah all go down. Seeing crackdowns on current corrupt Councilpeople (I'm looking at you, Kenyatta Johnson) also makes me very happy. Finally, it seems that even the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, which holds Philly back in so many ways (despite the fact that the Philly area gives more to PA than it gives back), is also finally waking up. Act 89 funding for SEPTA, and the current push for tax reform demonstrate this to me.

So, do you believe that "Old Philadelphia" is on its way out?
It's premature to say Johnny Doc is going anywhere.

Anyhow, oddly, I tend to have more in common with millennials' interest in city revival than I do with my own Boomer generation.

I think I mentioned that my family has a long history in the neighborhoods next to Mill Creek, Haddington, Carroll Park and later, Overbrook. In fact my oldest relative, who's is 98, still lives in Haddington.
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Old 08-15-2016, 08:49 AM
 
Location: New York City
9,338 posts, read 9,197,273 times
Reputation: 6423
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
There's an interesting article in todays's Philly Mag site about a rouge preservationist who takes great issue with how much of the old is not( will probably not) be preserved.
I read the article, his point of view is a hit or miss with me. In my mind Philadelphia cannot stay "Old Philadelphia" without falling completely out of the picture, American cites are very different than European cities. I am not advocating bulldozing everything for new towers, and while some preservation efforts have paid off, a lot of the preservationist ideals and provincial outlooks have held the city back from so much more.
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Old 08-15-2016, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Dude...., I'm right here
1,763 posts, read 1,527,681 times
Reputation: 1987
The short answer is Yes, the old Philadelphia is on it's way out.

The long answer. Cities are:
1. Dynamic
2. and under-go interchanging periods of booms and bursts.

The booms and bursts are related to the state of the economy, both at a national and regional level. At the moment, the overall state of the economy is at a mend, so I believe this will drive part of the changes we are seeing. There is also the issue of population growth, which is closely tied to the economy. And then like you mentioned, there is local politics which drives the regional level of the economy. The sum of these factors will determine the changes.

I don't think the changes in Philly will be exceptional, like we have seen in NYC or London. I think the sociol-economic changes driving the revival are weak and the city has to compete with other cities for investments.

I also think when a city becomes very successful, long term residents bear the brunt and are forced to move out at the expense of new residents. This is what drives many to cling to the status quo because drastic changes will force them out.

So, what will the new Philadelphia look like?



Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013 View Post
and the current push for tax reform demonstrate this to me.

So, do you believe that "Old Philadelphia" is on its way out?
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Old 08-15-2016, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,246 posts, read 10,489,726 times
Reputation: 8758
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ondoner View Post
I don't think the changes in Philly will be exceptional, like we have seen in NYC or London. I think the sociol-economic changes driving the revival are weak and the city has to compete with other cities for investments.
I agree with almost everything you've said, and it's true that Philly has very little-to-no chance of following the path of NYC or London in the future for several reasons, but if anything, I'd argue that the socio-economic changes driving Philadelphia's growth are actually very strong.

In a recent report by the Pew Charitable Trusts, the Census shows that Philadelphia's population growth of young college graduates between 2000-2014 is over 100% of overall population growth overall, meaning that the city's net gain in young college graduates is VERY disproportionate as a component of its growth: Millennials Bring New Life to Some Rust Belt Cities

Very few other cities can claim that ratio of new, young college grads to overall growth, nor can they claim the volume, either. Those are very impressive socioeconomic figures for Philly, as it's very well-documented that higher educational attainment is the single biggest contributor to a vibrant and successful economy in terms of greater earning power, business attraction, and tax base.

Of course, there will be attrition of these college grads over time, but even if only 40-50% of them plant long-term roots in the city (most of the rest will settle in the suburbs anyway, which still creates a huge boon for the metro area), that's still a very positive net gain for the city compared with the relatively low educational attainment of Philly's current general population.
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Old 08-15-2016, 05:13 PM
 
2,419 posts, read 4,699,290 times
Reputation: 1317
What you speak of is not "old Philadelphia". The Philly you speak of is the post rizzo ghettoish philly. The CC area is a different beast altogether. Old philly, places where you still find a thick accent and all that are places like NE philly and south philly. There are still vestiges throughout, but in no way shape or form do the ghettos of philly represent philly.
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Old 08-15-2016, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Dude...., I'm right here
1,763 posts, read 1,527,681 times
Reputation: 1987
You keep quoting the same statistics of millenials flocking into the city and it's beginning to sound like a broken record. Personally, I want to see growth quoted in terms of $$$ (investments). The growth of college graduates would be impressive if this were a small college town. In the overall scheme of things, it's like pouring a bucket of colored water into a swimming pool.

Elsewhere, I came across this chart, of which Philly was conspicuously missing. I've been to Nashville a couple of times and I'm surprised they made it into the list and Philly missed. Another surprise is San Antonio, where they barely speak English outside the River walk.

Mod cut - graphic removed. Please post links and not copyrighted graphics.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
I agree with almost everything you've said, and it's true that Philly has very little-to-no chance of following the path of NYC or London in the future for several reasons, but if anything, I'd argue that the socio-economic changes driving Philadelphia's growth are actually very strong.

In a recent report by the Pew Charitable Trusts, the Census shows that Philadelphia's population growth of young college graduates between 2000-2014 is over 100% of overall population growth overall, meaning that the city's net gain in young college graduates is VERY disproportionate as a component of its growth: Millennials Bring New Life to Some Rust Belt Cities

Very few other cities can claim that ratio of new, young college grads to overall growth, nor can they claim the volume, either. Those are very impressive socioeconomic figures for Philly, as it's very well-documented that higher educational attainment is the single biggest contributor to a vibrant and successful economy in terms of greater earning power, business attraction, and tax base.

Of course, there will be attrition of these college grads over time, but even if only 40-50% of them plant long-term roots in the city (most of the rest will settle in the suburbs anyway, which still creates a huge boon for the metro area), that's still a very positive net gain for the city compared with the relatively low educational attainment of Philly's current general population.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 08-17-2016 at 08:54 PM..
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Old 08-15-2016, 07:09 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,634 posts, read 14,860,711 times
Reputation: 15932
I've been reading about a real estate developer who wants to tear an entire half block of the original Old Jeweler's Row on Sansom Street and build a modern luxury highrise apartment building there. That will erase a bit of "Old Philadelphia."

No one can deny Philly has improved since the 1980's when travel author Bill Bryson called Philly "the ugliest city in America." I've seen dramatic improvements to my own Spruce Hill neighborhood here in University City over the past 15 years.

Unfortunately, for a city that prides itself on it's history and architecture, a lot of demolition of handsome old buildings are a common occurrence.
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