Flash Mob at 15th and Chestnut and Surrounding Area (Philadelphia: house, law school)

[MB1562]

Originally Posted by lpranger467

Whether or not people liked Rudy Giuliani's policies or not, there is plenty of evidence from NYC history that conservative policy and aggressive policing (yes including stop and frisk) have a direct impact on crime. There is also at least preponderance of evidence that armed citizens act as a deterrent against crime. Even the most liberal person cant ignore that when Florida began to allow open carry and easily obtainable CCW permits that the rash of crimes there went down (I'm dating back to the era where tourists and others in S Florida were being robbed and killed).

If Phillys mayor is asleep at the wheel and more concerned about his public perception and not that of the cities (and citizens) then this issue will just get worse. Every time one of these mobs beat, rob and tear up stores it empowers others their age to copycat their acts.

This being said I'm not either advocating (or hoping) that legally armed citizens shoot these teens if they are just wrecking property and fighting among each other but I will say that no court in this state would convict someone who defended themselves or family from being attacked and robbed by a gang of thugs (which was my concern weeks ago due to all the vicious attacks and robberies against people who were just minding their own business).

Murder rates drop as concealed carry permits soar: report - Washington Times

Correlation doesn't always equal causation. It is quite possible it has a part, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Lets not forget that the Guiliani era started as the crack epidemic winded down, the economy improved immensely, and violent crime fell across the board. It was also the beginning of the gentrification of New York, so he rode a lot of positive trends in his administration that he can't, in all reality, take full credit for.

And before you accuse me of being some wimpy liberal, just know I keep a Glock 19 in my bedroom, and always have since I bought it when I was 21. Although I can say, I've never felt the need to carry it around with me in the city, and I used to work in Belmont, so, yeah.

[lpranger467]

I'd never accuse you of being either a liberal or wimpy, though my guess is youre maybe left of where I stand (most) days. I think you do have some valid issues about NYC but it was accelerated under Rudy by admission of almost all New Yorkers. This being said New York wasnt my sole area of focus (though I do own here and know it pretty well). South Florida had a significant issue with crime that was causing the area quite the black eye with foreigners. In 1987 Florida passed a "Shall Issue" CCW law that opened the door for people without a criminal record to easily get a handgun; the results were a very marked drop in violent crime. This reduction is well documented across both your more conservative and liberal media sources.

I primarily give the points on guns and people carrying guns to refute those who say you'll be imprisoned if you use a gun, sued etc-. History has shown that lawful and responsible carry does reduce crime and that civilian CCW holders are more hesitant than even the police to use their sidearm.

I again dont advocate violence in any way, especially against the teen groups who are causing property damage and fighting among themselves. But I also own (and carry) a sidearm and I will not hesitate to present it if the option is getting robbed and beaten by thugs and possibly facing grave injury; others should also feel confident that in the same situation they can do the same or frankly the "thugs" will get out of control and Philly will turn into another Detroit.

Originally Posted by MB1562

Correlation doesn't always equal causation. It is quite possible it has a part, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Lets not forget that the Guiliani era started as the crack epidemic winded down, the economy improved immensely, and violent crime fell across the board. It was also the beginning of the gentrification of New York, so he rode a lot of positive trends in his administration that he can't, in all reality, take full credit for.

And before you accuse me of being some wimpy liberal, just know I keep a Glock 19 in my bedroom, and always have since I bought it when I was 21. Although I can say, I've never felt the need to carry it around with me in the city, and I used to work in Belmont, so, yeah.

[cpomp]

Just saw the latest numbers in the Murder Thread, and Philadelphia homicides are up 35% from last year and at its highest point in almost a decade when the city was essentially in crisis mode for homicides. :/


The city is essentially in the same boat as Chicago, however all the focus is on them (thankfully for Philadelphia).

[2002 Subaru]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

Go to any gun safety course or talk to any police officer and they'll tell you it's not so simple. But regardless of any anecdotes that you or I can throw at each other, it's a LAST resort. Not one to be taken lightly.

OK, you scared me into not getting a handgun and a permit to carry ... and I'm getting rid of the shotgun next to my bed. Thanks.


Can I still carry my tazer? How about bear spray?

[2002 Subaru]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Not really the right post to follow this up with, but:

I'm probably to your left politically as well, albeit to kyb01's right. I think I get where you're coming from, and when have I jumped all over you for expressing your opinion?

Then again, maybe we're outliers.

Apparently, you're not a lunatic.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by 2002 Subaru

OK, you scared me into not getting a gun.

For the record, I grew up hunting and shooting guns. I still do, 25 years and running, although a little less because of where I live. I just, personally, don't take the use of deadly force lightly.

[2002 Subaru]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

It's an extension of my work, at least in part, for me. It's also a form of brand marketing.

BTW, have you heard who's going to speak at Harvard's Commencement this year? He will finally get a degree as a result.

Why not? The other guy got a Nobel Peace prize because of his skin color.

[lpranger467]

Seriously, well if ever there was a reason to be critical of the administration. I'm sorry (I'm not very PC) but damn if I wont take an entirely AA city leadership over a liberal white one any day, I dont see Nutter & Ramsey putting up with this sh-t.

Originally Posted by cpomp

Just saw the latest numbers in the Murder Thread, and Philadelphia homicides are up 35% from last year and at its highest point in almost a decade when the city was essentially in crisis mode for homicides. :/


The city is essentially in the same boat as Chicago, however all the focus is on them (thankfully for Philadelphia).

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by lpranger467

Seriously, well if ever there was a reason to be critical of the administration. I'm sorry (I'm not very PC) but damn if I wont take an entirely AA city leadership over a liberal white one any day, I dont see Nutter & Ramsey putting up with this sh-t.

You're not saying anything here that I don't agree with. Just wait until some fed funds disappear over the sancturary city stuff.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Just saw the latest numbers in the Murder Thread, and Philadelphia homicides are up 35% from last year and at its highest point in almost a decade when the city was essentially in crisis mode for homicides. :/


The city is essentially in the same boat as Chicago, however all the focus is on them (thankfully for Philadelphia).

Terrific. Sigh.

Didn't Commissioner Ross come from the homicide division? He's only been in the job a year and, frankly, if things deteriorate more there should be some way to apply public pressure to get rid of him. Too many of the "inbred"/coming up through the ranks of PPD commissioners haven't worked out so well. It seems to take " outsiders", like Ramsey, to shake things up and get things moving in the right direction.