In seeing this term-Negadelphian. Has Philly gotten past it yet? What will improve it yet besides just genrtrification? (Philadelphia: fit in, hotel)

[2002 Subaru]

Originally Posted by DavePa

Their neighborhoods may be another story.....

Transplants generally ONLY have the new improvements and replacements to rejoice in. They we hear most from on C-D it seems (not all). Those new transplants did not know the Old Philly or were there for its downturn and decay. So only a resounding - hurray, yippy and amazing story they tell on C-D.

Well said, Dave.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

I've never taken John DeBella (a Queens native, by the way) to be a City hater.

DeBella's "family," btw. (As am I, in case no one's figured that out.)

I don't know how far back one has to go in order to Remember When, but I generally think that one can make up for some gaps in memory by reading.

I've lived here for 34 of the 58 years I've been on this planet so far, and the only other place that's burned as strongly in my memory is my forever hometown of Kansas City.

So no, I don't remember when there were six department stores on Market Street east of City Hall, or when it was a Republican political machine that scooped up all the graft and gave us less in the way of physical improvements than we were supposed to get. (Ridden that Germantown subway yet, or the one up the Boulevard?)

But I know about both those things, as well as the other reasons why we don't have that subway up the Boulevard.

I tend to ascribe much of the negative attitude - and from what I've read, it has deep roots that go back to well before anyone posting here except kyb01 was born - to a dysfunctional political culture (the era that began with the election of Democratic reformers Joe Clark and Richardson Dilworth in 1951 and ended with Frank Rizzo was a detour) combined with a profound parochialism on the part of many natives (I've heard about Northeast residents who bragged about never going to Center City as though this were a badge of honor, and here and there you will still encounter the occasional suburbanite, especially in Delaware County, who talks as though nothing would change, and in fact things would get better, if a neutron bomb were dropped on Broad and Market tomorrow).

The antics of the SEPTA board since I moved here demonstrate the endurance of the city/suburb split even as it has gotten much smaller.

Addressing a comment I laughed at when 2002 Subaru wrote it mainly because of the source: Open-mindedness and tolerance seems sometimes to be a one-way street around here, and it's the people who ask others to display that quality that could use some themselves. (There's a Kansas Citian over on the Kansas City forum that displays a stronger version of this attitude.) I know that one of the things I said when I moved here from Boston to a random (black) Philadelphian who asked me what I thought about the place was, "It's better for black people here," and I'd still say that's the case relative to Boston, Gov. Deval Patrick notwithstanding. Yet I learned Philadelphia had its own answer to South Boston, and btw, both neighborhoods shared dominant ethnic groups and class orientations, and both have been transformed in similar fashion since the mid-1990s.

As for what the transplants are doing: Okay, maybe the "hooray for us!" cheerleading is a little overblown, especially as far as translating their interest in this place into action at the voting booth is concerned, but I also know it's not for lack of trying, as both the 5th Square and Philadelphia 3.0 demonstrate. (One of the 5th Square's founders now lives in LA, though.)

And I think we all underestimate the impact immigrants from abroad have had on this city: they're the ones who are primarily responsible for bringing the Italian Market's lower reaches back from the dead as well as reinjecting life along Washington Avenue, and they make up a large share of the people those old folks in the Northeast can't wrap their brains around. And - as in just about every other older large city in this country except Washington, DC, that has made a comeback from the depths of the 1970s - if it weren't for them, we'd still probably be talking about a shrinking population and even worse economy.

But, of course, the folks who put the current occupant of the White House there are skeered of those people, and I think we have some of them here too, our vote tally in the election notwithstanding.

I'm beginning to ramble, so I'll end by noting that I do think that negativity that gave rise to the term "Negadelphian" has deep roots, it's not limited to sports, and it is on the wane but not dead yet.

Postscript: Someone -- was it the OP? -- linked this essay at the beginning of this thread. I wrote a variation on the theme for the same publication. The author of the first one and I are acquainted, and we met through Phillyblog (now Philadelphia Speaks), which in its heyday was the liveliest local discussion forum around; half the journalists in town lurked on it. I think this fact also speaks to another peculiarity of this place: the everyone-knows-everyone-else nature of so many of its communities (geographical, professional, what have you). That's one reason why I often say Philly is "a small town masquerading as a big city."

[MarketStEl]

One more thing about Then vs. Now:

Some of you may recall this city's long reputation as a somnambulent place, best captured in two quips from native-son comedian W.C. Fields.

One of the two is the phrase he reportedly wanted on his tombstone: "On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia."

The other is, "I went to Philadelphia on a Sunday, but it was closed."

Well, the first visit I ever made to Philadelphia was on a Sunday in 1971. It was closed, though the subway was running.

And when I moved here in 1983, they rolled up the sidewalks downtown around 6.

Neither of these is true now. I think there are a lot of old-timers who still don't appreciate what a profound improvement this is.

[MB1562]

Originally Posted by 2002 Subaru

I'm only asking you to be a little more open-minded and understanding.
schools are generally still rancid.

This is absolutely comical coming from you.

And the public schools suck because of white flight, disinvestment, poor management, and the general American apathy towards minority-majority schools. Not to mention an unfathomable amount of poor parenting.

[Flyers Girl]

Originally Posted by briantroutman

And I think that gets at the other source of resentment: Some people’s discontent is perhaps more rooted in how the world has changed since downtown’s earlier glory days. The people they see on the street are different; they aren’t dressed as nicely. Some of the new businesses and cuisines are alien to the long-timers—reiki, vegan...what are these? And the stores and restaurants are perhaps more representative of a yuppie class at leisure—not a working class carefully spending an honest day’s wages. I think my father summed up the attitude in a recent disagreement about downtown’s revitalization “Well...those aren’t real businesses,” he said.

Great observation and I agree perhaps the root of the issue with people who appear to be anti-gentrification. Businesses in downtown areas, even in car-centric suburbs, used to be places like appliance stores or TV repairmen, 5 and dimes, and small grocery stores/bodegas. Practical shopping for those who lived in walking distance. Now they're boutique clothing stores and gift shops. While great stores, they aren't seen as practical in the same way the older downtowns were.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

DeBella's "family," btw. (As am I, in case no one's figured that out.)

Following myself up because I can't edit this out and I made a grave mistake:

I confused John Di Bella for Pierre Robert.

My apologies to both.

[2002 Subaru]

Originally Posted by MB1562

This is absolutely comical coming from you.

And the public schools suck because of white flight, disinvestment, poor management, and the general American apathy towards minority-majority schools. Not to mention an unfathomable amount of poor parenting.

Why is it comical coming from me? Explain ... and please don't (yet again) embarrass yourself by screeching 'racist!,' ye who holds his nose high around the natives.


RE: Public schools - Your last sentence is the only thing here that isn't falsely blaming 'others.' Either way, fact is, they're still rancid.


Query: What town did you abandon for Philadelphia?

[Clark Park]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I live in Manhattan now, and heck, even Manhattanites say they love Philadelphia. I had a convo on Sunday with a gay couple who just got back from a wedding in Society Hill and they said they fell in love with the city during their weekend visit.

I just got home from Manhattan yesterday from visiting my uncle who lives up there. It's true ... whenever I told folks I live in Philly they had only positive things to say about The City Of Brotherly Love.

[2002 Subaru]

Originally Posted by Clark Park

I just got home from Manhattan yesterday from visiting my uncle who lives up there. It's true ... whenever I told folks I live in Philly they had only positive things to say about The City Of Brotherly Love.

Everybody loves Society Hill ... I can't wait to move there.

[Clark Park]

Originally Posted by 2002 Subaru

Everybody loves Society Hill ... I can't wait to move there.

I am perfectly happy living in the Spruce Hill neighborhood of University City. Victoriana galore!