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Old 11-16-2018, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
931 posts, read 530,284 times
Reputation: 1376

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I think most people in the city are indifferent to South Jersey. It's a place you pass through on your way to the Turnpike or the Shore, and that's about it. Maybe you go to the Cherry Hill Mall from time to time. I worked in South Jersey (Cherry Hill), and there was a lot more animosity from them towards the city than I ever saw from the city towards it. Like someone upthread mentioned, a lot of the people who live in South Jersey are former Philadelphians or their parents were. They fled the city when it was at it's lowest in the later 20th century. Many of the South Jersey people I worked with only made trips into the city for stuff happening at the Sports Complex. They drive across the bridge, get off at the exit and park. Then once it was done, they got right back in their cars and headed straight back across the bridge. I don't know how true this is across the board, but it was definitely true in my experience for the year I was unfortunate enough to have to work there.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:10 AM
 
Location: The Left Toast
1,092 posts, read 1,353,146 times
Reputation: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowhomecity View Post
This is all a historical narrative.

Southeast Pennsylvania has always been the more developed region.

DUH (We have Philadelphia).

It is the wealthier region. And also the region with more issues on our plate.

Southeast Pennsylvania population : Nearly 5 Million

South Jersey Population: 1.5 Million

Point of the comparison. S. New Jersey is great for what it is. I dont dislike it, but for a true unity of city and state mindset. Turn to Southeast Pennsylvania. Have you honestly met a Philadelphian or Pennsylvanian who like Jersey. Nah.

S. NJ is fine and dandy I truly don't dislike. Only when they think they share the assets of our region(southeast PA), which honestly are quite profound.



....Whaaaaat., are you talking about? lol
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Media
159 posts, read 83,726 times
Reputation: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
I've become quite aware of the dynamics of bi- or multi-state metropolitan areas in the US. Take a look at... Chicago’s [suburbs] in Northwest Indiana...
A somewhat semi-related example: As a fan of Jean Shepherd and having listened to countless recorded hours of his radio broadcasts from the ’60s and ’70s, I’ve always been intrigued by his tendency to, at different times refer to himself as being “from Chicago” (where he was born and lived as an infant), “from the South Side of Chicago”, “from Hammond, Indiana” (where he lived nearly all of his recountable childhood), “from Northern Indiana”, or simply “from Indiana”—alternately coloring the setting as urban and streetwise or provincial and naïve depending on how it suited the story in question.

- - -

I’m not a native of this region, and perhaps my perception is influenced by the fact my connections to Philadelphia are associated with being a native of this state—and therefore being Pennsylvanian is the common thread. But personally, I definitely perceive a much greater separation between the city and its NJ suburbs vs. its PA suburbs. The relatively few crossings (all being tolled) and the fact that the transit systems are separate contribute to this perception. I certainly don’t have any animosity toward NJ at all—indifference would be a more apt term.

And that said, I have a family connection to both non-PA suburban states: In the ’60s, my father lived first in Wilmington during his junior high years then in Haddonfield during his high school years. His stepfather was a school principal, then a superintendent, respectively, in the two districts. My dad grew up following Philadelphia sports, walking to the corner store to buy Tastykakes, and of course tuning into Philadelphia media outlets. But he and his family rarely went into the city, and speaking about this era in retrospect, I’ve never once heard him say that he lived “in the Philadelphia area” or “near Philadelphia”. It’s always “New Jersey” or “Delaware”.

Then, too, my perception may be influenced by South Jerseyans I’ve known, particularly classmates at Penn State and West Chester. Many of them had fairly Philadelphia-sounding accents, but they were fairly quick to point out that they were from New Jersey. There were many loud gripes about alcohol retailing (“Well in Jersey, we...”), lots of NJ identity stuck to the back of their cars (“Jersey Girls Don’t Pump Gas” stickers and the like) or posted on their Facebook pages, and so on. My lasting impression was that being from New Jersey was a far greater part of their identity than being from PA was to my fellow native Pennsylvanians.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:37 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
12,938 posts, read 6,530,063 times
Reputation: 4493
Very interesting thread! I do consider Philadelphia 'my city" in a way, and Pennsylvania my state.. in a way. I do feel some affinity for Penn State athletes, for example. But in my case, I was actually born in Pennsylvania, and moved to SJ when I was too young to remember. Plus, my family is entirely from Pennsylvania. The flipside to that is Philadelphians really consider the South Jersey shore theirs, too. And that's valid. In some SJ shore areas, Pennsylvania license plates can easily outnumber NJ ones.

The poster who pointed out that people from the Pennsylvania suburbs of Philadelphia may occasionally be considered Philadelphians made an interesting point. You probably wouldn't see that with someone from SJ.

The state line doesn't matter much in terms of regional connectedness, or sports allegiances, but it does still have a funny impact on identities. And SJ isn't entirely an extension of Philadelphia, as there are aspects of a unique NJ identity.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:38 AM
 
Location: New York City
4,949 posts, read 4,565,232 times
Reputation: 2267
Quote:
Originally Posted by briantroutman View Post
A somewhat semi-related example: As a fan of Jean Shepherd and having listened to countless recorded hours of his radio broadcasts from the ’60s and ’70s, I’ve always been intrigued by his tendency to, at different times refer to himself as being “from Chicago” (where he was born and lived as an infant), “from the South Side of Chicago”, “from Hammond, Indiana” (where he lived nearly all of his recountable childhood), “from Northern Indiana”, or simply “from Indiana”—alternately coloring the setting as urban and streetwise or provincial and naïve depending on how it suited the story in question.

- - -

I’m not a native of this region, and perhaps my perception is influenced by the fact my connections to Philadelphia are associated with being a native of this state—and therefore being Pennsylvanian is the common thread. But personally, I definitely perceive a much greater separation between the city and its NJ suburbs vs. its PA suburbs. The relatively few crossings (all being tolled) and the fact that the transit systems are separate contribute to this perception. I certainly don’t have any animosity toward NJ at all—indifference would be a more apt term.

And that said, I have a family connection to both non-PA suburban states: In the ’60s, my father lived first in Wilmington during his junior high years then in Haddonfield during his high school years. His stepfather was a school principal, then a superintendent, respectively, in the two districts. My dad grew up following Philadelphia sports, walking to the corner store to buy Tastykakes, and of course tuning into Philadelphia media outlets. But he and his family rarely went into the city, and speaking about this era in retrospect, I’ve never once heard him say that he lived “in the Philadelphia area” or “near Philadelphia”. It’s always “New Jersey” or “Delaware”.

Then, too, my perception may be influenced by South Jerseyans I’ve known, particularly classmates at Penn State and West Chester. Many of them had fairly Philadelphia-sounding accents, but they were fairly quick to point out that they were from New Jersey. There were many loud gripes about alcohol retailing (“Well in Jersey, we...”), lots of NJ identity stuck to the back of their cars (“Jersey Girls Don’t Pump Gas” stickers and the like) or posted on their Facebook pages, and so on. My lasting impression was that being from New Jersey was a far greater part of their identity than being from PA was to my fellow native Pennsylvanians.
I think naturally by location Philadelphia and its PA burbs have stronger ties. And there is a lot more of a cultural and economic spillover between Philadelphia and its PA burbs. The majority of the regions culture, arts, history and economy is split between Philadelphia and its Pa burbs which naturally creates stronger relationships and intertwining of the two.

I think the biggest difference between PA and SJ burbs is that the PA side is self sufficient. The 4 PA burb counties are filled with art, history, recreation, etc. They are also economic monsters and are the base for the regions white collar workforce. So the disconnect has a lot of factors, much moreso than just animosity toward Philadelphia (which I do not see much of, except in the more blue collar parts of Delco).
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Burlington County, NJ
33 posts, read 21,669 times
Reputation: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowhomecity View Post
This is all a historical narrative.

Southeast Pennsylvania has always been the more developed region.

DUH (We have Philadelphia).

It is the wealthier region. And also the region with more issues on our plate.

Southeast Pennsylvania population : Nearly 5 Million

South Jersey Population: 1.5 Million

Point of the comparison. S. New Jersey is great for what it is. I dont dislike it, but for a true unity of city and state mindset. Turn to Southeast Pennsylvania. Have you honestly met a Philadelphian or Pennsylvanian who like Jersey. Nah.

S. NJ is fine and dandy I truly don't dislike. Only when they think they share the assets of our region(southeast PA), which honestly are quite profound.
Ever heard of Cherry Hill? Voorhees? There's more wealth there than you can shake a stick at!

I've been living in South Jersey for 31 years and I'm very happy here. After all is said and done, I'm a Philly girl, born and raised.

I just don't know what point you're trying to make, and I really don't understand your post. Were you born in Philadelphia? What do you really know about South Jersey?

And your last paragraph makes absolutely NO SENSE!
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Old 11-16-2018, 03:10 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,404 posts, read 9,474,624 times
Reputation: 4579
Quote:
Originally Posted by harriet1954 View Post
Ever heard of Cherry Hill? Voorhees? There's more wealth there than you can shake a stick at!

I've been living in South Jersey for 31 years and I'm very happy here. After all is said and done, I'm a Philly girl, born and raised.

I just don't know what point you're trying to make, and I really don't understand your post. Were you born in Philadelphia? What do you really know about South Jersey?

And your last paragraph makes absolutely NO SENSE!
Southeastern PA is definitely more monied than South Jersey, between the Main Line and middle and outer ring suburbs elsewhere in Chester, Montgomery, Bucks, and Delaware Counties. Cherry Hill and Voorhees have affluent pocket, but they’re upper-middling overall in terms of wealth (with median household incomes of ~$94k and $82k, respectively). That’s in the same range as Montgomery County’s Springfield Township, which is perfectly nice (and does have a millionaire’s row section) but is overall a similarly typical middle to upper middle class suburb, with a MHI of ~$87k. Median household income is just one part of the picture, but it’s a convenient quick and dirty metric.

Haddonfield (~$135k MHI) and Moorestown (~$126k MHI) are South Jersey’s wealthy standouts, and from what I understand, parts of newly developed Gloucester County are catching up, too.

I have nothing against South Jersey, by the way. While I think that being in a diffeeent state adds an extra layer to the South Jersey identity, they’re every much as part of the Delaware Valley as the SEPA folks.
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:43 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
20,638 posts, read 25,868,106 times
Reputation: 8216
Quote:
Originally Posted by harriet1954 View Post
Ever heard of Cherry Hill? Voorhees? There's more wealth there than you can shake a stick at!

I've been living in South Jersey for 31 years and I'm very happy here. After all is said and done, I'm a Philly girl, born and raised.

I just don't know what point you're trying to make, and I really don't understand your post. Were you born in Philadelphia? What do you really know about South Jersey?

And your last paragraph makes absolutely NO SENSE!
He does it every chance he gets & gets called out for it, hence the I don't have a problem, I don't have a problem. I get the impression that he's from elsewhere in Pennsylvania & thinks it's cool to trash South Jersey.
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Old 11-17-2018, 01:20 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
3,727 posts, read 1,811,484 times
Reputation: 2265
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElijahAstin View Post
I have nothing against South Jersey, by the way. While I think that being in a diffeeent state adds an extra layer to the South Jersey identity, they’re every much as part of the Delaware Valley as the SEPA folks.
(emphasis added)

Fie on you.

I know the term hasn't gone away, but I have long found it odd that this is the only large metropolitan area in the country that has attempted to erase the presence of its core city in its regional name.

(The Twin Cities are an exception, because both of those cities are core cities. "San Francisco" is understood in "the Bay Area.")

Sheesh, the Delaware doesn't even really have a valley once it passes Trenton on its way to the ocean.

The term, by the way, originated in the rivalry between The Evening Bulletin and Walter Annenberg's Inquirer. The Bulletin favored the more traditional "Greater Philadelphia" - where, as oldtimers will recall, "nearly everybody reads" that paper - and Annenberg started promoting "Delaware Valley" as a counter. Given the then-widespread tendency for Philadelphia's Pennsylvania suburbs to regard the city as an alien body stuck onto the region, Annenberg's term took.

Of course, Annenberg's paper had "Philadelphia" in its name while The Bulletin didn't.
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:20 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
7,404 posts, read 9,474,624 times
Reputation: 4579
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
(emphasis added)

Fie on you.

I know the term hasn't gone away, but I have long found it odd that this is the only large metropolitan area in the country that has attempted to erase the presence of its core city in its regional name.

(The Twin Cities are an exception, because both of those cities are core cities. "San Francisco" is understood in "the Bay Area.")

Sheesh, the Delaware doesn't even really have a valley once it passes Trenton on its way to the ocean.

The term, by the way, originated in the rivalry between The Evening Bulletin and Walter Annenberg's Inquirer. The Bulletin favored the more traditional "Greater Philadelphia" - where, as oldtimers will recall, "nearly everybody reads" that paper - and Annenberg started promoting "Delaware Valley" as a counter. Given the then-widespread tendency for Philadelphia's Pennsylvania suburbs to regard the city as an alien body stuck onto the region, Annenberg's term took.

Of course, Annenberg's paper had "Philadelphia" in its name while The Bulletin didn't.
I'd never really thought about it that way, but you do raise a good point.
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