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Old 02-07-2019, 03:04 PM
 
Location: The mountain of Airy
5,219 posts, read 5,135,074 times
Reputation: 3469

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
White children are twice as segregated in schools as they are residentially. White people overwhelmingly prefer their children attend majority white schools. Not surprisingly most white children attend majority white schools and almost no white children attend a school that is less than plurality white. This pattern persists despite the fact that white children are barely half of the US school age population currently and will soon be just a plurality.

Most white people want integrated schools with integrated meaning majority white. There is a very large body of research on this topic. Once black or Latino enrollment reaches 30% at a school, white people begin abandoning the school. Forty percent is roughly the tipping point for Asian enrollment.

Iíve lived the white flight from Asians story with my own children in a high income school district (median household income at our elementary school is about $140k) at schools with the some of the highest test scores in our state. Our neighborhood elementary school went from 90% white to now 80% Asian in ten years. Just as the research predicts once Asian enrollment hit the 40 - 45% range white families started steering clear of the school. Once Asian enrollment hit about 50% white families started to send their kids to private schools or use school choice options to send their kids to a nearby majority white school.

Decades of school resegregaton, current school enrollment patterns and abundant research on the topic make it clear that race matters to the vast majority of white people. The fact that schools are as highly racially segregated as they are despite decades of prohibition of de jure segregation and steadily declining white enrollment as a percentage of total enrollment speaks volumes.

The fact is that attributing our decisons to SES is the go to move for whites because admitting that race is a factor in where we choose to send our children to school and worse still that we STRONGLY prefer majority white schools makes most of us unbearably uncomfortable.
Good information, thanks. Some of us aren't embarrassed, but more annoyed that we are lumped into those who "prefer majority white schools" when there isn't a good option in the neighborhood we live in. All of that to say that just because research shows trends, doesn't mean it's the case for everyone. And so what do you do? "Choose integration" as MSEl states, selecting a low performing school (as far as can be determined from the outside)?
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:19 PM
 
Location: The Best Philly, West Philly
947 posts, read 662,933 times
Reputation: 2365
I think this is pertinent to the thread:

https://www.pennlive.com/news/2018/0...districts.html

According to Niche and their methodologies, the Philadelphia School District didn't make the cut for the 50 worst school districts in PA last year. Only two SDs (William Penn and Chester-Upland) from the Philadelphia area made that list.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:22 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,797 posts, read 29,767,420 times
Reputation: 22023
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewin888 View Post
checking on redfin properties and its school ratings.
why all in 1 or 2 on the scale of 10?
demographics and that's all I'm saying.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
4,160 posts, read 2,014,302 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
Good information, thanks. Some of us aren't embarrassed, but more annoyed that we are lumped into those who "prefer majority white schools" when there isn't a good option in the neighborhood we live in. All of that to say that just because research shows trends, doesn't mean it's the case for everyone. And so what do you do? "Choose integration" as MSEl states, selecting a low performing school (as far as can be determined from the outside)?
My advice: Don't rely on the ratings. You have eyes and ears. Visit the school. Talk to parents whose children attend it.

Do you buy houses based only on the photos you see on Zillow, or rent apartments just off their Craigslist postings?
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
4,160 posts, read 2,014,302 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
"And it would need some quality rankings or something that dictates the quality over just parents saying it's a good school."

If people have the money to send their child to a better education than the public school nearby, they will. I asked the question with the quoted caveat above, because people are not going to send their child to a school where their child will be a minority AND do so while questioning the quality of the school, basing their decision on anecdotes. My question is an honest one.
I didn't say it wasn't.

But I provided you with an anecdote from a parent who did have the money to "send their child to a better education," only to find that the education was better when they put their kid in the "worse" public school. That's not just talk, that's real-world evidence. (Why would that parent say their child's performance improved at a school they concede has some defects when it didn't?) That parent is clearly an exception to the rule, but who's to say that if more people tried that, there wouldn't be more of them? The parent in question obviously thinks there should be, their own announced future actions notwithstanding.
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
4,160 posts, read 2,014,302 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by MB1562 View Post
The school I taught at previously was Belmont Charter School, at 40th & Brown in Belmont.
Great Schools ranking: 3
Niche grade: C-

What was that I was saying about data hiding as much as or more than they reveal?
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:39 PM
 
Location: The mountain of Airy
5,219 posts, read 5,135,074 times
Reputation: 3469
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
I didn't say it wasn't.

But I provided you with an anecdote from a parent who did have the money to "send their child to a better education," only to find that the education was better when they put their kid in the "worse" public school. That's not just talk, that's real-world evidence. (Why would that parent say their child's performance improved at a school they concede has some defects when it didn't?) That parent is clearly an exception to the rule, but who's to say that if more people tried that, there wouldn't be more of them? The parent in question obviously thinks there should be, their own announced future actions notwithstanding.
Right, but didn't that same parent remove their child from that school? It's still just one parent. My question wasn't asking for a single anecdote.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
4,160 posts, read 2,014,302 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
Right, but didn't that same parent remove their child from that school? It's still just one parent. My question wasn't asking for a single anecdote.
True, but if that parent just went by the ratings, chances are they wouldn't have put their child in the school to begin with.

What I'm trying to say is: Your own powers of observation are as good as any rating site's numbers. There are things you can find out by going out and talking to people that the numbers can't tell you. If you know where you want to live, you can check out the schools there yourself and see if they pass muster.

That parent didn't quit after one year, like too many of the teachers in those lower-income schools do. They stayed because they liked the positive results. Eventually, they wearied of the problems, but they didn't rule the school out beforehand because of them. Just going by the numbers, they may well have.

It may be just one anecdote. But it makes a point that goes beyond the one story. What was that parent's last sentence in her review again?
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Old Yesterday, 09:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
What mostly black schools in Philadelphia offer a top-notch education? As a white parent of a white child, I don't have any around me that would meet the quality criteria but I don't know what options there are city-wide. And it would need some quality rankings or something that dictates the quality over just parents saying it's a good school.
There are plenty of public high schools in Philadelphia beyond Masterman and Central that I wish more parents would consider. Some options:

Carver HSES (73% black) is always underrated for some reason. Very good for STEM-oriented students in particular and it's close to the Broad Street Line.

The Academy at Palumbo is also moving up and would be a good option for families in Queen Village or the Italian Market. It's 46% black, 27% Asian, 12% white, and the rest Hispanic/other.

Science Leadership Academy is also an option if you like the project-oriented learning model (which has some pluses and minuses, but could appeal to certain students). It's quite diverse--36% black, 33% white, 12% Hispanic, and 11% Asian.

For more artsy students, GAMP, Rush, and CAPA would all be fine options too with solid academics to go with the arts programs.

Girls' High and Bodine also have IB programs that could be attractive (Bodine would be quite convenient for those living in Northern Liberties) and Parkway Middle College has a partnership with Philadelphia CC to get students dual-enrollment credits. All three of these schools are majority-black.

There are also a few specialized programs like the Honors Program at Northeast and the Health Science and Computer Science programs at Franklin Learning Center that could be good for the right student as well.

You can check out the test scores for these schools and you'll find they're usually slightly, but not that much, below the average for most suburban schools. But please don't just go by the average test score numbers. Take a look at how many APs/extracurriculars are offered and ideally take a visit in person to see for yourself what the day-to-day experience is like. I think many parents would be pleasantly surprised by the options out there and I don't understand why the District and local media don't do more to highlight these schools.
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Old Today, 04:22 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
4,160 posts, read 2,014,302 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by phledthrwy12 View Post
There are plenty of public high schools in Philadelphia beyond Masterman and Central that I wish more parents would consider. Some options:

Carver HSES (73% black) is always underrated for some reason. Very good for STEM-oriented students in particular and it's close to the Broad Street Line.

The Academy at Palumbo is also moving up and would be a good option for families in Queen Village or the Italian Market. It's 46% black, 27% Asian, 12% white, and the rest Hispanic/other.

Science Leadership Academy is also an option if you like the project-oriented learning model (which has some pluses and minuses, but could appeal to certain students). It's quite diverse--36% black, 33% white, 12% Hispanic, and 11% Asian.

For more artsy students, GAMP, Rush, and CAPA would all be fine options too with solid academics to go with the arts programs.

Girls' High and Bodine also have IB programs that could be attractive (Bodine would be quite convenient for those living in Northern Liberties) and Parkway Middle College has a partnership with Philadelphia CC to get students dual-enrollment credits. All three of these schools are majority-black.

There are also a few specialized programs like the Honors Program at Northeast and the Health Science and Computer Science programs at Franklin Learning Center that could be good for the right student as well.

You can check out the test scores for these schools and you'll find they're usually slightly, but not that much, below the average for most suburban schools. But please don't just go by the average test score numbers. Take a look at how many APs/extracurriculars are offered and ideally take a visit in person to see for yourself what the day-to-day experience is like. I think many parents would be pleasantly surprised by the options out there and I don't understand why the District and local media don't do more to highlight these schools.
I have a friend who graduated from Bodine.

During a conversation we were having one afternoon, I asked him point blank why he didn't attend Harvard - he's that smart.

"Because I was more concerned with popularity then," was his reply.

That's a hazard one can encounter at even the top-ranked schools on those lists.

You did leave out one Philadelphia public school that has a curricular emphasis that AFAIK no other urban high school in the Northeast (at least) has:

W. B. Saul Agricultural High School, whose campus includes farmland within the Wissahickon Park across Henry Avenue from the school in upper Roxborough.

Want to learn where your food comes from? You can do that here.
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