Terminal Square, Upper Darby Township... (Philadelphia, Chester: real estate, rent, neighborhood)

[Urban Peasant]

I have never been to Upper Darby Township before but upon browsing through it in Google Maps, I can't help but feel that Terminal Square could be a near twin of Packards Corner in Boston's Allston-Brighton Neighborhood. Both were streetcar suburbs of old and probably developed around the same time. I think I will stop by to personally take a look at it the next time I'm in Philly.
Check to see for yourself and compare.

[Duderino]

Very interesting! I've actually thought in the past about the development parallels between Allston/Brighton area and Upper Darby.

Of course, demographically, Upper Darby is much is closer to a Medford or a Malden (i.e., much more working-class, immigrant based, as opposed to hipsters/yuppies), but the built environment is definitely of the same era and both essentially functions as an extension of the urban core.

[Patmcpsu]

This comparison is a great example of how dirty and barren Philly can get. This area could be prime real estate, but no.

[Urban Peasant]

As hard to believe as it is for those familiar with the neighborhood, Allston-Brighton used to be very working class before it became a haven for hipsters. Packard's Corner was known for its car dealerships all of which have moved elsewhere.

Could Upper Darby experience the same gentrification one day? Well it's not too far from University City or even Center City. The good thing is that Philly has more space to build or redevelop. Boston has no space which is why real estate is in great demand and rent in practically every former middle class neighborhood like Allston-Brighton have shot up sky high.

[Patmcpsu]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

As hard to believe as it is for those familiar with the neighborhood, Allston-Brighton used to be very working class before it became a haven for hipsters. Packard's Corner was known for its car dealerships all of which have moved elsewhere.

Could Upper Darby experience the same gentrification one day? Well it's not too far from University City or even Center City. The good thing is that Philly has more space to build or redevelop. Boston has no space which is why real estate is in great demand and rent in practically every former middle class neighborhood like Allston-Brighton have shot up sky high.

Not to knock Boston; I enjoy the city a lot, but it is so geographically isolated. It's at the end of the Acela corridor, its airport isn't a hub for any airline, and the congestion around NYC makes it difficult to access the rest of the country via car.

If Boston is able to become a nice city, imagine what Philadelphia could do with its geographic advantage.

Edit: Fun fact, Boston is the closest major US city to Africa

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

As hard to believe as it is for those familiar with the neighborhood, Allston-Brighton used to be very working class before it became a haven for hipsters. Packard's Corner was known for its car dealerships all of which have moved elsewhere.

Could Upper Darby experience the same gentrification one day? Well it's not too far from University City or even Center City. The good thing is that Philly has more space to build or redevelop. Boston has no space which is why real estate is in great demand and rent in practically every former middle class neighborhood like Allston-Brighton have shot up sky high.

No, won't happen in Upper Darby. Although there is a really good coffee joint on Long Lane near Terminal Sq that's been there for a few years nothing else like it has sprung up near it. So, that's a reason why I will continue to say "no" to the kind of gentrification you are talking about.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by kyb01

No, won't happen in Upper Darby. Although there is a really good coffee joint on Long Lane near Terminal Sq that's been there for a few years nothing else like it has sprung up near it. So, that's a reason why I will continue to say "no" to the kind of gentrification you are talking about.

Well, never say never. In the near term, you're absolutely right. But I don't think it's inconceivable in over the next, say, two decades, that a rail hub a la 69th Street becomes much more attractive to real estate developers, specifically for it's super-underutilized transit-oriented potential.

A lot of variables, of course. And Philadelphia proper still has a lot more capacity for gentrification, particularly in North Philadelphia and much of West Philadelphia (South Philly seems as though it will reach "capacity" the soonest).

But there have been crazier propositions/outcomes in real estate than a more yuppified/hipsterfied Upper Darby.

Originally Posted by Patmcpsu

If Boston is able to become a nice city, imagine what Philadelphia could do with its geographic advantage.

Precisely. In terms of not just a critical geographic advantage, but a more balanced climate, greater affordability, and with very similar urban amenities (e.g., top flight culture, transit, education/medical institutions and walkability), there's no question that Philadelphia could find the same, or greater, success relative to Boston.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Well, never say never. In the near term, you're absolutely right. But I don't think it's inconceivable in over the next, say, two decades, that a rail hub a la 69th Street becomes much more attractive to real estate developers, specifically for it's super-underutilized transit-oriented potential.

A lot of variables, of course. And Philadelphia proper still has a lot more capacity for gentrification, particularly in North Philadelphia and much of West Philadelphia (South Philly seems as though it will reach "capacity" the soonest).

But there have been crazier propositions/outcomes in real estate than a more yuppified/hipsterfied Upper Darby.



Precisely. In terms of not just a critical geographic advantage, but a more balanced climate, greater affordability, and with very similar urban amenities (e.g., top flight culture, transit, education/medical institutions and walkability), there's no question that Philadelphia could find the same, or greater, success relative to Boston.

I lived there, well closer to Lansdowne, because of its proximity to W. Philly and Penn for several years. And to save money(wage tax). Once my salary was high enough that the tax didn't feel painful, I moved to where I wanted to be: the city.
In fact I moved to the neighborhood I still live in: Spring Garden.

I'm sure you probably know that 69th St was a great shopping street 50 years ago which grew, in part, because it was a transit hub. There were three dept. stores(Lit's, Gimbels and JC Penneys), for instance, and three movie theaters: The Tower, The Terminal (which was inside the 69th St Terminal, the entrance was on Market St), and the 69th St( which is where the 7000 Theater, western end of Terminal Sq ) is today. Malls helped kill much of that.

It does have potential for revival but I don't see it happening.

[MarketStEl]

Well, I do note one strong physical similarity right off the bat:

The two intersections pictured have a light rail line that heads off to the south and a street that heads to the west. In both cases (Upper Darby: West Chester Pike; Allston: Brighton Avenue), the street headed westward also had a light rail line running in it - the tracks for the "suspended" Watertown (A) branch of the Green Line were still in place when I lived in Allston. (So was the trolley storage facility at the Watertown end of the line. Both are gone now.)

And Allston wasn't all that yuppified when I lived there in the early 1980s. It had a sizable Hispanic population and a strong blue-collar ethos alongside the student ghetto.

Upper Darby is pretty multiculti now, and I wonder why no one's tried to capitalize on that save the owners of H Mart (and the various restaurants).

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Well, I do note one strong physical similarity right off the bat:

The two intersections pictured have a light rail line that heads off to the south and a street that heads to the west. In both cases (Upper Darby: West Chester Pike; Allston: Brighton Avenue), the street headed westward also had a light rail line running in it - the tracks for the "suspended" Watertown (A) branch of the Green Line were still in place when I lived in Allston. (So was the trolley storage facility at the Watertown end of the line. Both are gone now.)

And Allston wasn't all that yuppified when I lived there in the early 1980s. It had a sizable Hispanic population and a strong blue-collar ethos alongside the student ghetto.

Upper Darby is pretty multiculti now, and I wonder why no one's tried to capitalize on that save the owners of H Mart (and the various restaurants).

You are absolutely right. The "A" Line heading to Brighton Center, Newton Corner, and Watertown used to branch off at Packard's Corner just like how the now defunct Red Arrow Streetcar Routes #103 Ardmore and #104 West Chester used to branch off from Routes #101 Media and #102 Sharon Hill at Terminal Square (I am a transit buff which is how I read up on such things). That is another sign of the demise of streetcar suburbs and the streetcar routes than ran through them at one time in our nation's history. Terminal Square has an H Mart East Asian grocery store and Packard's Corner has a Super 88 East Asian grocery store just to the right of the picture. There is still a large Asian American community in Allston-Brighton.