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Old 08-22-2019, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
5,551 posts, read 2,711,899 times
Reputation: 3500

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
On another note about the area, I wonder why the Northwest is dominated by Acmes and Save A Lots. They are both inferior to their competition equivalents: Whole Foods > Acme; Aldi > Save A Lot. Residents would surely benefit from some better grocery options, imo.
WFM operates in a segment of the market that is not quite the same as the one Acme operates in. With its emphasis on organic and natural foods and its rather strict quality standards, which ban a bunch of widely used chemicals and additives found in most popular brands of processed foods, it's more of a specialty grocer than a general supermarket. The presence of an Acme and a Whole Foods across the street from each other at 10th and South streets in Wash West drives this point home. Their customer bases overlap but are not congruent sets.

And I should note that Acme has no presence in Germantown. The neighborhood is served by two Save-a-Lots, one located just over the line in East Mt. Airy - this was the 66th and last Bottom Dollar Food store to open - an indie supermarket (former Pathmark) affiliated with the IGA wholesale distributor and a Fresh Grocer, which is part of the ShopRite (Wakefern) wholesale cooperative. But as for why there's no Whole Foods up this way:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
Regarding Whole Foods, they historically have required a minimum of 200k residents with a college degree within a store’s trade area. That plus the cost of assembling the space to open a store is why they are in Plymouth Meeting and Wynnewood not in the Northwest. Not sure what the story is with Aldi.
200k minimum? You sure about that? What does WFM define as a trade area?

There aren't yet 200,000 residents in all of "Greater Center City," yet WFM has two stores there. And I'm not sure that the University of Chicago campus produces enough affiliated residents to support the WFM on the border of Hyde Park and Kenwood on Chicago's South Side. There was much national ballyhoo when WFM opened this store a little more than two years ago precisely because it wasn't located in the sort of neighborhood where WFM usually locates stores. I wonder what its sales figures are?

As for Aldi, it's quite likely that the company didn't quite like the demographics of Germantown - though why, I don't know; they're not all that different from those of the area around 46th and Market streets, where an Aldi has been located for years. I know that the S-a-L at Chew and Washington Lane was not one of the 33 Bottom Dollar stores Aldi acquired from Delhaize when the Belgian supermarket operator shut the chain down; the BD at Broad and Godfrey, OTOH, was - but that store is also convenient to more affluent East Oak Lane. Outside Germantown, there probably wasn't a parcel of land big enough to accommodate a standard-format Aldi store; the one being built in southern Mt. Airy on Germantown Avenue will be the first one in this region (and for all I know anywhere else the chain operates in the US) that is neither freestanding nor ringed by a surface parking lot - its parking will be in a garage beneath the store.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
Interesting. I didn’t know that, but I can’t say that I’m surprised. I’m not actually a big Whole Foods fan, but I truly dislike Acme. What I’d really love is a Wegmans, my childhood grocery store in Upstate NY. I know that’s dreaming, but...
Wegmans did open a two-level supermarket in a former industrial building in a gentrifying Brooklyn neighborhood. Maybe if we can find one of those...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
I agree that revitalization in Germantown appears to be done well. It definitely isn’t a well known hot spot for many. Now is time to reveal I recently moved to the neighborhood. Some of my friends said that I’m “moving to the suburbs.” It goes to show how little some people who live closer to Philly’s core understand about the neighborhood.
I still get "it's too far out" comments from both friends I invite up to visit and people I recommend this neighborhood to as a place to live. Welcome to Germantown, by the way! Why don't you come to the next "Meet the Editors" meeting with The Local's editors (including me, your Germantown Editor) at the Historical Society of Germantown next month? (These usually take place on the second Thursday of the month, but because one of the biggest of all Phillymag events is scheduled for that evening in September, next month's night will take place on Sept. 25.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:26 AM
 
9,932 posts, read 5,629,379 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
Eighty-nine percent of Wisssahickon Charter’s students are black and eighty-three percent are economically disadvantaged. Green Woods charter which has a similar theme and which was started by a group of white parents from Mt. Airy and Chestnut Hill is sixty-nine percent white and twelve percent economically disadvantaged. Green woods is the only majority white charter or public school in Northwest Philly and it has proportionately fewer economically disadvantaged students (just 12% are ED) than neighboring Springfield Township. Functionally it’s a taxpayer funded private school. There are a couple of plurality white K - 8 schools in Roxborough and otherwise finding white kids not enrolled in private schools is like playing Where’s Waldo.

White liberals talk a big game about diversity but when it comes time to enroll their children in school they nearly always choose schools where white children are the largest racial group. The fact is that they walked away a long time ago from the area’s public schools and they aren’t coming back. There have always been a few lonely souls bucking the trend but it’s never been remotely close enough to make a lasting difference.

You’re correct that plenty of middle-class black families opt out of the public school system as well, but even if they didn’t their presence would do nothing to end racial segregation. Henry is the poster child for that. It’s not a majority economically disadvantaged school yet decade after decade white families have avoided the school with the exception of a small number who enroll their kids in the lower elementary grades.

Also OMC = Our Mother of Consolation located in Chestnut Hill.
I'm curious to know what your view is concerning how mixed race families end up handling this. Particularly those whose children are not visibly biracial.
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:33 AM
 
Location: West Philly
45 posts, read 14,302 times
Reputation: 17
How can we fix our Public school issue?
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Old 08-22-2019, 10:49 AM
 
9,932 posts, read 5,629,379 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Von7philly View Post
How can we fix our Public school issue?
Well, we know that bussing didn't work.
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Old 08-22-2019, 12:07 PM
 
514 posts, read 228,730 times
Reputation: 543
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
WFM operates in a segment of the market that is not quite the same as the one Acme operates in. With its emphasis on organic and natural foods and its rather strict quality standards, which ban a bunch of widely used chemicals and additives found in most popular brands of processed foods, it's more of a specialty grocer than a general supermarket. The presence of an Acme and a Whole Foods across the street from each other at 10th and South streets in Wash West drives this point home. Their customer bases overlap but are not congruent sets.
I was going to post this exact same thing. I definitely don't see Acme and WF in the same target market at all.
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Old 08-22-2019, 04:29 PM
 
590 posts, read 435,121 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
WFM operates in a segment of the market that is not quite the same as the one Acme operates in. With its emphasis on organic and natural foods and its rather strict quality standards, which ban a bunch of widely used chemicals and additives found in most popular brands of processed foods, it's more of a specialty grocer than a general supermarket. The presence of an Acme and a Whole Foods across the street from each other at 10th and South streets in Wash West drives this point home. Their customer bases overlap but are not congruent sets.

And I should note that Acme has no presence in Germantown. The neighborhood is served by two Save-a-Lots, one located just over the line in East Mt. Airy - this was the 66th and last Bottom Dollar Food store to open - an indie supermarket (former Pathmark) affiliated with the IGA wholesale distributor and a Fresh Grocer, which is part of the ShopRite (Wakefern) wholesale cooperative. But as for why there's no Whole Foods up this way:



200k minimum? You sure about that? What does WFM define as a trade area?

There aren't yet 200,000 residents in all of "Greater Center City," yet WFM has two stores there. And I'm not sure that the University of Chicago campus produces enough affiliated residents to support the WFM on the border of Hyde Park and Kenwood on Chicago's South Side. There was much national ballyhoo when WFM opened this store a little more than two years ago precisely because it wasn't located in the sort of neighborhood where WFM usually locates stores. I wonder what its sales figures are?





I still get "it's too far out" comments from both friends I invite up to visit and people I recommend this neighborhood to as a place to live. Welcome to Germantown, by the way! Why don't you come to the next "Meet the Editors" meeting with The Local's editors (including me, your Germantown Editor) at the Historical Society of Germantown next month? (These usually take place on the second Thursday of the month, but because one of the biggest of all Phillymag events is scheduled for that evening in September, next month's night will take place on Sept. 25.
I heard the 200k figure about five years ago on a radio broadcast. That’s why I qualified my statement with “historically”. I don’t know how much their store location strategy has changed over time or since they were acquired. I do know that WFM’s key metric was college educated residents when they were independent. They intentionally did not factor income into their site selection process which is atypical for their industry.
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Old 08-23-2019, 07:47 AM
 
9,932 posts, read 5,629,379 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
I heard the 200k figure about five years ago on a radio broadcast. That’s why I qualified my statement with “historically”. I don’t know how much their store location strategy has changed over time or since they were acquired. I do know that WFM’s key metric was college educated residents when they were independent. They intentionally did not factor income into their site selection process which is atypical for their industry.
So since Amazon acquired WF.

The WF that was previously at 20th and Callowhill(opened in 90s) didn't fit that number wrt its neighborhood.
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
5,551 posts, read 2,711,899 times
Reputation: 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
So since Amazon acquired WF.

The WF that was previously at 20th and Callowhill(opened in 90s) didn't fit that number wrt its neighborhood.
On further reflection, I wonder whether BRValentine didn't add a zero to the figure they heard.

Most supermarkets of any kind don't have customer sheds of 200,000 residents. That would mean just two supermarkets serving all of Lehigh County (2017 est. pop.: 366,494), for instance.

20,000 college-educated residents I could believe.
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Old 08-23-2019, 08:40 AM
 
590 posts, read 435,121 times
Reputation: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
On further reflection, I wonder whether BRValentine didn't add a zero to the figure they heard.

Most supermarkets of any kind don't have customer sheds of 200,000 residents. That would mean just two supermarkets serving all of Lehigh County (2017 est. pop.: 366,494), for instance.

20,000 college-educated residents I could believe.
It’s certainly possible that I’m wrong or misremember what I heard. That said, I decided to look at the Lehigh Valley which has 821k residents. It has one Whole Foods store. The Philadelphia MSA has six million residents and ten Whole Foods stores. It’s also possible that I’m not wrong. I’m reasonably confident that the number of college grads WFM looks for in site selection is greater than 20k. I’m certain that WFM (at least prior to being acquired) used the number of college grads in a store’s trade area rather income as a key metric for site selection.

The issue isn’t what is the total number of shoppers that supermarkets typically use for site selection. It’s what is the number of target shoppers does Whole Foods use and given that there are 500 stores in the entire US they are targeting a much narrower segment of the population than the typical supermarket chain, at least to date.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
226 posts, read 68,029 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
It’s certainly possible that I’m wrong or misremember what I heard. That said, I decided to look at the Lehigh Valley which has 821k residents. It has one Whole Foods store. The Philadelphia MSA has six million residents and ten Whole Foods stores. It’s also possible that I’m not wrong. I’m reasonably confident that the number of college grads WFM looks for in site selection is greater than 20k. I’m certain that WFM (at least prior to being acquired) used the number of college grads in a store’s trade area rather income as a key metric for site selection.

The issue isn’t what is the total number of shoppers that supermarkets typically use for site selection. It’s what is the number of target shoppers does Whole Foods use and given that there are 500 stores in the entire US they are targeting a much narrower segment of the population than the typical supermarket chain, at least to date.
Any modern retailer, and certainly Amazon/WFM is one, will employee a multi-variate model to determine new site locations. Income, education, density and many other criteria are used.

It will be interesting to see how Amazon markets their grocery business going forward. WFM may not be their only play in that space. And physical locations are giving up ground in wallet share to delivery services in many retail categories. That includes grocers. Every time I'm in my local WFM I spot shoppers collecting goods for home delivery.

Like other retail categories, expect disruption.
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