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Old 10-18-2019, 10:59 AM
 
4,816 posts, read 3,743,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
I am not saying that I would be "fine and dandy" but you portrayed Krasner as blowing the Schellengers off, he did not. They issued a statement. they did not say what you claim they said. Just as you put words in my "internet" mouth. NO where did I say I or the Schellengers should be "fine and dandy".
So Krasner's office didn't say this was a case of ''two unique individuals''? Of course Krasner blew this verdict off. no statement otherwise than ''we accept the jury's decision'', basically blowing off the Schellengers. No mention of Sean Schellenger, nothing, just ''we're sorry''.

You did say the Schellengers had no class. How should the Schellengers' react given your statement above and in the ''no class'' post?

Btw, when is the last time you've seen a victim's family this angry at a DA? The Schellengers didn't spew venom at White or his attorneys, no it was directed at the DA. This is not a good. The Schellengers clashed with the DA from the outset of this case.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:04 AM
 
4,816 posts, read 3,743,246 times
Reputation: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
Actually I do, growing up with a mother who was a civil rights attorney all her life but I'll give you the standard law description

Prosecuting attorneys represent local, state, or federal governments in criminal court cases. In addition to trying cases, they also interview witnesses or victims, evaluate police reports, and perform legal research to plan the prosecution of each case.

This does not mean that the prosecution always win. Do YOU know how the judicial system works? In a nutshell, the prosecution presents its best case. the JURY job is basically to follow the judges instruction, weigh the evidence presented and then determine the verdict.

The jobs were performed, you simply don't like the outcome. @marketstreetEl said, the defense had to raise reasonable doubt. they did.
The DA didn't do its job....plain and simple. The defense does raise reasonable doubt, it's the DA's job to overcome any reasonable doubt. It didn't.

So, now you're saying the jobs were performed but prior to this you withheld an opinion because you weren't in the courtroom to see if the DA did its job. Hmm. Now they have cuz markerstreetEl brought up the reasonable doubt point.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:16 AM
 
4,816 posts, read 3,743,246 times
Reputation: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsport View Post
Yeah, 1londener, I usually see your POV, but definitely not this time. That last post was hanging by a thread.

Regardless, there are much more important and impactful matters to the well-being of Philly that we should be focusing on as opposed to this one-off mess.
Not so sure this matter can be dismissed so quickly.

The case is over, we all know the results etc.

I just raised this in another post in response to a poster here saying the Schellengers had no class yesterday.

First, the Schellengers went after Krasner, and have had problems with him since August '18. Open animosity from victim's mother especially.

Not one word publicly from the Schellengers against Michael White, his family, or his attorneys.

The venom from the victim's family etc is directed at DA Krasner. I can't recall anywhere having seen this level of hatred and animosity from a victim's family directed at any DA.

More common is anger, venom, and emotion directed at a defendant, especially here, that gets to walk home. No mention of the defendant at all, just at the DA.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
3,019 posts, read 1,514,658 times
Reputation: 10899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
So Krasner's office didn't say this was a case of ''two unique individuals''? Of course Krasner blew this verdict off. no statement otherwise than ''we accept the jury's decision'', basically blowing off the Schellengers. No mention of Sean Schellenger, nothing, just ''we're sorry''.

You did say the Schellengers had no class. How should the Schellengers' react given your statement above and in the ''no class'' post?

Btw, when is the last time you've seen a victim's family this angry at a DA? The Schellengers didn't spew venom at White or his attorneys, no it was directed at the DA. This is not a good. The Schellengers clashed with the DA from the outset of this case.
What the heck were they supposed to say/ do?? Roll around on the floor kicking and screaming??
Yes, I expect the DA to act professionally and not emotionally.

The reason we actually have jury's is so victims family's emotions do not come into play in the trial.

Are you kidding me?? Victims family's are always upset at DA's l. Every election we've got commercials from a victims family decrying how someone is "soft" on crime .

I agree the da clashed with the Schelllengers. She wanted white charged on a higher level and the DAs office did not agree.

And yes courtrooms have decorum. Screaming at the judge in the middle of the courtroom because you don't agree with the verdict is not what I call appropriate behavior. Ok so I'll take the hit maybe saying they had no class (which by the way was not what I said, I said the da showed more class) was inappropriate . The defendants mother at least had the grace to say she was praying for the victim and his family.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:27 AM
 
4,816 posts, read 3,743,246 times
Reputation: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
I don't think I ever imagined I'd agree with you on some matter involving crime and race, but you never know.

The point is that the standard in criminal cases is "beyond a reasonable doubt." The jury obviously had reasonable doubt, and some of the grounds for it surfaced around the time of the attack.

Schellenger had a past record of belligerence when he was drunk or high; that came out in the news reports right after the slaying.

I don't consider "I'm going to knock the black off you" a racist statement; jeez, I've heard black parents use it on their kids when they're upset at them. But in the context, I can see where it might have served as a trigger, especially to someone who was easily triggered.

The prosecution's job is to remove all doubt. The defense merely has to raise some. Apparently, it did.
Absolutely, the defense has to create and implant in the jurors' minds any reasonable doubt. White's defense attorneys obviously did that; that's their job. The DA is supposed to overcome any of the these reasonable doubts; that's their job. The DA didn't do the job here.

I don't get the racist statement on the 'beat or knock the black off you either and, as I stated before, that line's from Precious, or old south The Color Purple or Sounder...I actually thought black parents owned this phrase. Again, I've never heard anyone non-black, and now that I think about it's always been a black adult reprimanding a child, use this line, not to say Schellenger didn't, because we'll never really know and only White heard this, but just sayin'...
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:37 AM
 
4,816 posts, read 3,743,246 times
Reputation: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
What the heck were they supposed to say/ do?? Roll around on the floor kicking and screaming??
Yes, I expect the DA to act professionally and not emotionally.

The reason we actually have jury's is so victims family's emotions do not come into play in the trial.

Are you kidding me?? Victims family's are always upset at DA's l. Every election we've got commercials from a victims family decrying how someone is "soft" on crime .

I agree the da clashed with the Schelllengers. She wanted white charged on a higher level and the DAs office did not agree.
No one said anything about the DA needing to act emotionally.

Sorry, but campaign commercials don't cut it...so, what, someone's mad because a DA reduced charges to involuntary manslaughter and gets at least some kind of justice/conviction, and the family is upset it didn't get a murder 3?

All this public anger directed only at Krasner.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:06 PM
 
4,816 posts, read 3,743,246 times
Reputation: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
Actually I do, growing up with a mother who was a civil rights attorney all her life but I'll give you the standard law description

Prosecuting attorneys represent local, state, or federal governments in criminal court cases. In addition to trying cases, they also interview witnesses or victims, evaluate police reports, and perform legal research to plan the prosecution of each case.

This does not mean that the prosecution always win. Do YOU know how the judicial system works? In a nutshell, the prosecution presents its best case. the JURY job is basically to follow the judges instruction, weigh the evidence presented and then determine the verdict.

The jobs were performed, you simply don't like the outcome. @marketstreetEl said, the defense had to raise reasonable doubt. they did.
Just like our current DA, your mother was a civil rights attorney. That's cool.

Thanks for clearing up your background.

When the DA doesn't gets a conviction, he didn't do his job. When the DA gets a conviction, he did his job.

The outcome is the outcome. It's the jury system we have. Still the best system in the world.

But to say the DA did his job is misplaced. White walked out of the courtroom and went home.

Last edited by Kamms; 10-18-2019 at 12:32 PM..
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
3,019 posts, read 1,514,658 times
Reputation: 10899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
Just like our current DA, your mother was a civil rights attorney. That's cool.

Explains perhaps as well why, last summer, you immediately jumped on the ''black baby dolls'' kids prank in South Philly, and then posted indignant shock that no one responded. Almost as if you were hoping this was a racial attack, lynching, KKK type of thing.

The very same day of this shocking ''black baby doll'' non-story, a 14 year old kid was killed in North Philly by a stray bullet. I don't recall any outraged or indignant postings from you on this tragic civil rights violation.

Thanks for clearing up your background.

When the DA doesn't gets a conviction, he didn't do his job. When the DA gets a conviction, he did his job.

The outcome is the outcome. It's the jury system we have. Still the best system in the world.

But to say the DA did his job is misplaced. White walked out of the courtroom and went home.
ok so I'll have to go back and remember what the black baby doll story was from last year. lol I'm lucky if I remember the kids name when they walk through the door.

Anyhoo yes it is the jury system we have and yes the outcome is the outcome. some times I agree with it, some times I do not but I will say it's very possible that I had two very different reactions to 2 very different situations. that's the issue with crimes, trials and juries. they can all be extremely different and then throw in the fact that no one here was in that courtroom, there are endless outcomes. I guess I'm not as "cut and dry" as you are.

Next, posting some thing has nothing to do with the degree of outrage. Some weeks I'm here a lot and will respond, other weeks I don't have time or inclination to comment.

I will say unfortunately living ones life in major cities has probably inured me to a lot of the horror that happens. between NYC (my hometown) chicago, Pittsburgh and philly, I probably don't bat an eye when hearing about certain crimes. And now I make it a point to specifically tune out. Saturday and Sunday I make it a point not to listen or look at the news. sorry I'd go crazy if I tried to stress over every killing in Philly.

Ok the DA didn't do his job. I'll agree for the sake of ending this argument. Yes White gets to go home because the jury did it's job, weighed the evidence and found him not guilty. not sure how "outrage" the public is, outside of here no one I know is really talking about it.

Lastly, I'm rarely shocked if people do or do not agree with me. If it's one thing I have learned from both parents (lawyer and NYC cop father) is that you can have 30 people looking at the very same thing and have 30 different interpretations. I also have had tons of post that don't get responses so that's not a problem. Having perfect strangers agree with me is really not something that is important to me.

Last edited by eliza61nyc; 10-18-2019 at 12:36 PM..
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:36 PM
 
4,816 posts, read 3,743,246 times
Reputation: 2151
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
ok so I'll have to go back and remember what the black baby doll story was from last year. lol I'm lucky if I remember the kids name when they walk through the door.

Anyhoo yes it is the jury system we have and yes the outcome is the outcome. some times I agree with it, some times I do not but I will say it's very possible that I had two very different reactions to 2 very different situations. that's the issue with crimes, trials and juries. they can all be extremely different and then throw in the fact that no one here was in that courtroom, there are endless outcomes. I guess I'm not as "cut and dry" as you are.

Next, posting some thing has nothing to do with the degree of outrage. Some weeks I'm here a lot and will respond, other weeks I don't have time or inclination to comment.

I will say unfortunately living ones life in major cities has probably inured me to a lot of the horror that happens. between NYC (my hometown) chicago, Pittsburgh and philly, I probably don't bat an eye when hearing about certain crimes. And now I make it a point to specifically tune out. Saturday and Sunday I make it a point not to listen or look at the news. sorry I'd go crazy if I tried to stress over every killing in Philly.

Ok the DA didn't do his job. I'll agree for the sake of ending this argument. Yes White gets to go home because the jury did it's job, weighed the evidence and found him not guilty. not sure how "outrage" the public is, outside of here no one I know is really talking about it.
My bad, sorry, it wasn't you about the black baby doll story..edited above. Sorry 'bout that.

Not sure of any outrage as well in public as the jury decided. That's it.

The skepticism about Krasner from the get go; the Schellenger family anger may or may not be legitimate, but it's something to consider. No anger at anyone but the DA.
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