U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Philadelphia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-24-2019, 01:16 PM
 
Location: NYC & Media PA
339 posts, read 210,071 times
Reputation: 247

Advertisements

There are many of us who moved here looking to find an (undiscovered) jewel of a city and have been disappointed in what the reality has been. Yes there are a ton of positive things going, and surrounding these events are vibrant, young insightful people. However on a day to day basis you have to deal with a populace (black and white) who are simply rotten to the core, have no pride in this city and victimize people seemingly for fun (hence the wolf pack attacks that happen in CC). Then you have the apologists who make excuses for this behavior, when these apologists staop making excuses and demand accountability from their politicians then maybe we can truly be a world class city


Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
This is marathon weekend in Philadelphia. There are a ton of positive things going in the city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-24-2019, 01:29 PM
 
10,006 posts, read 5,680,021 times
Reputation: 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpranger467 View Post
There are many of us who moved here looking to find an (undiscovered) jewel of a city and have been disappointed in what the reality has been. Yes there are a ton of positive things going, and surrounding these events are vibrant, young insightful people. However on a day to day basis you have to deal with a populace (black and white) who are simply rotten to the core, have no pride in this city and victimize people seemingly for fun (hence the wolf pack attacks that happen in CC). Then you have the apologists who make excuses for this behavior, when these apologists staop making excuses and demand accountability from their politicians then maybe we can truly be a world class city
Not making any excuses but God only knows what you would have thought of the city in the 70s/80s. We're a world away from that. But it's vital someone who is "fresh" continue to be honest about what they see and hear. I'm old and, really, my views don't matter as much as yours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2019, 01:44 PM
 
3,805 posts, read 1,830,231 times
Reputation: 2767
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
One of the rules I learned back in the days of Usenet newsgroups was: You can call others out on their views, but criticizing their grammar and usage was verboten.

This rule existed, I suspect, because most of the people who comment online don't have a strong command of written English, or they consider online conversation as more like talking than writing. (I'm definitely in the opposite camp here: it may be conversation, but it's written conversation, dammit!) If people called each other out on grammar, punctuation, and usage, every discussion thread would devolve into a grammar-Nazi flamefest.

My inner editor and proofreader could have a field day with a bunch of posters here - especially you, as I think I've noted before. But following that old rule, I refrain from doing so.

Now on to the substance:

I don't know how many of you here know that the city has been running a pilot street-sweeping program in six city neighborhoods since April; the pilot ends at the end of this month.

It probably hasn't registered with anyone participating in this discussion because the six neighborhoods are in lower-income parts of the city or not on the beaten path of the tourists and the more affluent or both.

This article suggests that while the response to the program has been positive, some esidents of the six neighborhoods aren't certain the leaf blowers and mechanical street sweepers have made much of a difference. (The leaf blowers are used to blow trash into the middle of the street so the sweepers can pick it up without requiring residents to move their cars.)

I hope the pilot program expands to other neighborhoods. Ideally, it should require that residents move their cars as the old program that ended in 2009 did.
*** You are truly one of the most mature posters on C-D.... and not self-boastful to do so. ***

I was about to post one I have created before I saw yours. Gives the new program Behr initiated and not so well received so far? Also comments on figures touching other cities.

Like I say there. You are not going to change people or situations overnight. Just it is overdue and does hurt PhillyJanuary link of the new highlighting pilot program of blowing debris from sidewalks) into streets (apparently under and around parked cars). So then street-sweepers will run to pick it up (apparently in the middle of the street not curbs).

Philly street cleaning pilot will ‘blow trash into street’ to bypass parking issues (from Jan 2019)

https://whyy.org/articles/philly-str...arking-issues/

From link:
- Philadelphia is the only major city without a comprehensive street cleaning program.
- the last neighborhood-wide sweeping services were terminated over complaints from residents about weekly alternate-side-of-the-street parking restrictions designed to clear a path for sweeper trucks.
- the pilot is actually going to be a mixture of mechanical sweepers, as well as laborers who will blow trash into the street, where the sweepers will then pick it up, so folks don’t have to move their cars.

People are not moving their cars as required and recent reporting showed that the city was hitting its morning routes just 25 percent of the time, even though many neighboring residents are still ticketed by the Philadelphia Parking Authority nearly every week.

Again, Philly's tight grid with limited parking and alleys with it. Is a hindrance to street-sweeping vs other cities that enforce it and get it.

** Another more recent link.

STREET-SWEEPING PROGRAM KICKS UP CONTROVERSY (6-neighborhoods)

https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/...arking-tickets

Is Street Sweeping Just an Excuse to Hand Out Parking Tickets?

From link:
* How much do cities make on this?
- more than $15 million a year in Chicago; $8.1 million over 10 years in Philadelphia; nearly $4 million a year in D.C.

*Do the street sweepers always show up, actually and Looking for a new spot to park the night before ends up for nothing?

Not so much in Philadelphia! It’s the only major city without an actual street-sweeping plan. Since the early 2000s, when budgets were slashed,
- Philly has been without any semblance of a regular program.
- basically, they sweep when they can,
but They still do ticket cars for it.
- even though residents may not have seen a street sweeper on their street in weeks or years, they still have to move as if it’s coming, or else get ticketed.

*** In Little ole' Washington, D.C., street sweepers collect more than 4,300 tons -- tons!-- of debris each year. Most of that would otherwise end up in your local river etc.

APPARENTLY, THINGS ARE NOT GOING WELL

https://centercityteam.com/2019/04/1...p-controversy/


ON OTHER CITIES
* Boston actually tows cars after ticketing FIRST does not work.

Chicago enforces fines be paid and more places to move cars so it works there cleaning streets thru out the city as scheduled one side of street at a time as usual.
Street-sweeping in Chicago COST $8.5-MILLION ANNUALLY. They take in 8.1-milion in ticket revenue. But the fine money isn't used to pay for cleanings directly.

Philly isn't changing the mentality of its people and mentality on littering. Only thing is getting STREET-CLEANING service however and whatever it takes. in perceptions.

Last edited by DavePa; 11-24-2019 at 01:54 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-24-2019, 02:39 PM
 
29 posts, read 13,290 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outofthematrix View Post
North Philly
West Philly
All a long broad.
Fishtown
Kensington
When will people start to truly care about philly stop throwing trash everywhere?
Why won't fines and laws get more strict and why wont the city make this a main priority?
This is decades in the making
Overall somehow Philadelphia became the poorest largest city in America so I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.


As far as Kensington that area has an open air drug market. People come from different states to Kensington just to buy drugs and use them and most who use wind up living in that area on the streets. Homeless drug addicts are the main people in Kensington (and neighboring areas like Fishtown) who are contributing to the litter and fecal matter in the streets. The only thing clean around Kensington is the various stations along the EL as they seem to pressure wash the staions on a frequent basis.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lpranger467 View Post
There are many of us who moved here looking to find an (undiscovered) jewel of a city and have been disappointed in what the reality has been. Yes there are a ton of positive things going, and surrounding these events are vibrant, young insightful people. However on a day to day basis you have to deal with a populace (black and white) who are simply rotten to the core, have no pride in this city and victimize people seemingly for fun (hence the wolf pack attacks that happen in CC). Then you have the apologists who make excuses for this behavior, when these apologists staop making excuses and demand accountability from their politicians then maybe we can truly be a world class city

I couldn't have said it any better. 100% agree.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2019, 07:44 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,964 posts, read 5,365,370 times
Reputation: 3065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance001 View Post
Overall somehow Philadelphia became the poorest largest city in America so I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.


As far as Kensington that area has an open air drug market. People come from different states to Kensington just to buy drugs and use them and most who use wind up living in that area on the streets. Homeless drug addicts are the main people in Kensington (and neighboring areas like Fishtown) who are contributing to the litter and fecal matter in the streets. The only thing clean around Kensington is the various stations along the EL as they seem to pressure wash the staions on a frequent basis.


I couldn't have said it any better. 100% agree.
I think that is a big part of it. So many parts of the city were void of any investment, outreach or opportunity for so many years, therefore it wasn't even be an option to consider cleaning up after oneself.

Outside of Center City, U City and some other areas, there is certainly a lot of litter, BUT no worse than what I see in New York, LA and San Fran. Maybe because Philadelphia has smaller streets lined with matching rowhomes it makes trash more noticeable?

I do think the general longtime populous of Philadelphia (city) does not consider picking up trash necessary, not sure why?... If you go to Media where my parents live, people have so much pride in keeping the community clean, kind of shows the difference in pride between the city and burbs.

Off topic a bit, but I am so looking forward to the day when Philadelphia loses its title has Americas poorest big city, Houston's poverty rate is holding steady and actually trickled upward this year, if Philadelphia decreases 1-3% for the next few years, I could see Houston taking the top spot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2019, 08:05 AM
 
Location: East Mt Airy, Philadelphia
1,077 posts, read 1,093,999 times
Reputation: 2024
I've lived in Philly (E Mt Airy) for 11+ years. As I've said in numerous posts, moving here from NC was the best decision my wife and I ever made. We have wonderful neighbors, are always aware of how beautiful the houses and nearby parks are, etc etc.
But ...
I still can't get over how people casually toss stuff out of their car, dump what looks like mountains of household items in vacant lots, and the like. I just don't get it. I deliberately avoid driving and running on Chelten Ave. just because it's so visually depressing. And it makes me wonder ... why, as part of the daily opening of their business, can't people sweep their sidewalk? It would tidy up at least 20-30 feet, and might become an example of the "broken windows" effect. It's simple, quick, with no cost, and is potentially transformative. Sure, streets like Chelten are a shadow of what they were Back in the Day, but that's no reason to throw up one's hands and say "ok, we give up."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2019, 09:25 AM
 
595 posts, read 281,049 times
Reputation: 448
I'l never understand the mindset of the litterer. It breaks my heart to watch someone casually throw garbage into the street (sometimes literally infront of a trashcan). I've picked it up and handed it back to them before with a "hey, I think you dropped this" just to get a glimpse at the face of someone with such little regard. My wife gets nervous when I do that so I don't do it with her.

What is particularly depressing is that often, it's a teenager or twentysomething. So someone taught that kid somewhat recently, that throwing garbage onto the street of your own city is perfectly acceptable.

Oh, and I was in NYC this weekend and was amazed at how that town avoids the "dirty" label. It has the same problems with trash as any other big town I've been in. DC and Chicago are the only big towns I've spent a ton of time in that mange to move the needle when it comes to trash.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2019, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
5,670 posts, read 2,760,074 times
Reputation: 3573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
I'l never understand the mindset of the litterer. It breaks my heart to watch someone casually throw garbage into the street (sometimes literally infront of a trashcan). I've picked it up and handed it back to them before with a "hey, I think you dropped this" just to get a glimpse at the face of someone with such little regard. My wife gets nervous when I do that so I don't do it with her.
I was walking to the corner store with an acquaintance who had dropped by my place to visit last night. He was carrying a drink I had poured him into a plastic cup.

I was walking just a step or two ahead of him when I heard the sound of plastic hitting concrete.

Without turning around, I said, "Why did you drop that there? Go pick that up. There's a trash basket on the corner. Put it there."

He did so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2019, 11:13 AM
 
29 posts, read 13,290 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankInPhilly View Post
I've lived in Philly (E Mt Airy) for 11+ years. As I've said in numerous posts, moving here from NC was the best decision my wife and I ever made. We have wonderful neighbors, are always aware of how beautiful the houses and nearby parks are, etc etc.
But ...
I still can't get over how people casually toss stuff out of their car, dump what looks like mountains of household items in vacant lots, and the like. I just don't get it. I deliberately avoid driving and running on Chelten Ave. just because it's so visually depressing. And it makes me wonder ... why, as part of the daily opening of their business, can't people sweep their sidewalk? It would tidy up at least 20-30 feet, and might become an example of the "broken windows" effect. It's simple, quick, with no cost, and is potentially transformative. Sure, streets like Chelten are a shadow of what they were Back in the Day, but that's no reason to throw up one's hands and say "ok, we give up."

Chelten ave use to be nice in the 1960s and further back but the racial demographics and culture have dramatically changed. The people who kept up those areas are all but gone and their descendants have moved out.

Btw, I avoid Chelten ave also. Once I saw a guy eating a slice of pizza then throw the paper plate right on the ground.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2019, 11:22 AM
 
10,006 posts, read 5,680,021 times
Reputation: 3526
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
I think that is a big part of it. So many parts of the city were void of any investment, outreach or opportunity for so many years, therefore it wasn't even be an option to consider cleaning up after oneself.

Outside of Center City, U City and some other areas, there is certainly a lot of litter, BUT no worse than what I see in New York, LA and San Fran. Maybe because Philadelphia has smaller streets lined with matching rowhomes it makes trash more noticeable?

I do think the general longtime populous of Philadelphia (city) does not consider picking up trash necessary, not sure why?... If you go to Media where my parents live, people have so much pride in keeping the community clean, kind of shows the difference in pride between the city and burbs.

Off topic a bit, but I am so looking forward to the day when Philadelphia loses its title has Americas poorest big city, Houston's poverty rate is holding steady and actually trickled upward this year, if Philadelphia decreases 1-3% for the next few years, I could see Houston taking the top spot.
Well, tbh, I don't want that happening in Houston or any American city just so it benefits Philadelphia. But, of course, I do understand what you mean.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Philadelphia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top