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Old 12-17-2019, 12:22 PM
 
155 posts, read 46,836 times
Reputation: 228

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
It's time to help the OP with neighborhoods still affordable yet close to CC and they can build equity. That basically is what was asked? The thread title doesn't note that subject.
It's like this thread has become the replacement to the -- "Philly 2035" thread .....

Seems the thread is just going to be a Philly 2020s growth, housing and job market thread.
Maybe it is time just to let the thread be a growth and positive housing return city to invest in thread for today and coming 2020's? The prices in Point Breeze for a gutted row-home is HUGE to me. As I see ..... them still as if condos as attached-rows and not exactly demanding a single-separated home price. But they are. "Kudos" to Philly's recovery then.

Philly was late in coming into the larger part of the gentrification game. But it definitely has hit. Bodes well if the economy stays steady. But the OP is looking for a good entry-level potential area. Not already gentrified or overly elevated prices.
If I were OP and I wanted a decent house in a clean and safe area not too far from Central City I'd be looking at Manayunk and Roxborough. 300k gets you a pleasant property. Attached but that helps with controlling utility costs. It's not fashionable or hot like Point Breeze, but you're getting something better than the latest cheap and crappy flip and ghetto neighbors. It's a bit more real, solidly white working class with some prosperity here and there.

OP has said in the other thread she doesn't want to rely on mass transit and that means she wants a car, and parking is a nightmare anywhere around Center City.
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Old 12-17-2019, 01:14 PM
 
186 posts, read 117,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsport View Post

What I'm getting at is there are still modestly-appointed homes in close-to-CC neighborhoods in our city that can be bought at great deals and will provide very nice financial gains - moreso that you would see in the majority of major cities or most places in general. However, I'm seeing in real time, that this situation is quickly disappearing.
Yeah DXBtoFL really has his mind made up but it doesn't seem to jive with on the ground reality - as you pointed out stats/numbers are skewed in cities b/c you can buy a small, 1BR condo in Rittenhouse for $350 but a decently appointed 4bedroom, 3bath house at 3000sf for a family is going for $1.5 - $2mm. The average of those two properties, imo, masks the larger story.

I bought a smaller property in GHo in '09 and sold in 2014 for almost twice what i paid for it. It was not a brand new, refurb job. We put some sweat equity into it, and it was on a good block (the adage: buy the worst house on the best block is smart if you want to make $$).

I then took my proceeds and, similarly, bought a larger fixer upper house (not a gut, but needed work) in Fitler Square in 2014 (The adage, buy the largest house you can possibly afford in the best neighborhood, also is smart to make money). 5 years later it's close to being double what I bought it for due to both market trends and property investment. So in about 10 years, we've gained something like 1400% in home equity.
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Old 12-17-2019, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
1,084 posts, read 437,334 times
Reputation: 1334
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXBtoFL View Post
If I were OP and I wanted a decent house in a clean and safe area not too far from Central City I'd be looking at Manayunk and Roxborough. 300k gets you a pleasant property. Attached but that helps with controlling utility costs. It's not fashionable or hot like Point Breeze, but you're getting something better than the latest cheap and crappy flip and ghetto neighbors. It's a bit more real, solidly white working class with some prosperity here and there.

OP has said in the other thread she doesn't want to rely on mass transit and that means she wants a car, and parking is a nightmare anywhere around Center City.
You've actually got me confused with another poster. I am actually considering getting rid of my car myself to cut down on that expense. I actually would really love to live somewhere close to Chestnut Hill East line, but I am not sure any of the 'hoods will work out for me. In that case, I'll have to keep the car. I also really like the convenience of day trips and taking my dog places with me.

Anyway, to Pennsport's point, I am probably looking at something closer to 200-300K. Something not overly rehabbed, but I also want to be able to move in and make adjustments to the place gradually in my time living there. I recently moved to Germantown, and although I love the built/natural environment of the Northwest, I am realizing it is too far from my friends and things I like to do outside of work. I originally moved here to be closer to work, but I don't really feel like its worth it to live this far out. If I move/buy, I would prefer to just take commuter rail up here (rather than 76), which is why...

I'd love to live in Center City, but I also know I am only going to get a 1 br/ba apartment there (not sure if I wanna be that downsized) for that size. West Philly along Baltimore Ave would also be great, but ya gotta go pretty far down Baltimore Ave before prices get that cheap. South Philly is a bit far from work and lacks the greenery I like, but I'd also consider there.
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:48 PM
 
155 posts, read 46,836 times
Reputation: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHLondoner View Post
Yeah DXBtoFL really has his mind made up but it doesn't seem to jive with on the ground reality - as you pointed out stats/numbers are skewed in cities b/c you can buy a small, 1BR condo in Rittenhouse for $350 but a decently appointed 4bedroom, 3bath house at 3000sf for a family is going for $1.5 - $2mm. The average of those two properties, imo, masks the larger story.

I bought a smaller property in GHo in '09 and sold in 2014 for almost twice what i paid for it. It was not a brand new, refurb job. We put some sweat equity into it, and it was on a good block (the adage: buy the worst house on the best block is smart if you want to make $$).

I then took my proceeds and, similarly, bought a larger fixer upper house (not a gut, but needed work) in Fitler Square in 2014 (The adage, buy the largest house you can possibly afford in the best neighborhood, also is smart to make money). 5 years later it's close to being double what I bought it for due to both market trends and property investment. So in about 10 years, we've gained something like 1400% in home equity.
There's always the dangers of confusing anecdotal experience with larger market trends and statistics.

I'm glad things worked out for you (and you had the advantage of buying in 2009 - the nadir of the crash) but it didn't work out for others. You can search the papers about housing crashes in Mount Airy, for example. I looked at several properties in West Mount Airy a few months ago, all had been bought circa 2005-2008, all were being resold, in good condition, for pretty much the same what they paid for 10+ years ago. Lots and lots of properties on the Main Line are selling today what they sold for in 2005-2008.

And more than one (several in fact) realtors have flat out told me the average price for a 1-bed condo in Center City has barely budged in 10 years. (2 bedrooms have appreciated 30%, which does sound great on paper, on the other hand condo HOAs are very high).

The real estate market in Philadelphia is fragmented with different segments chasing after different types of properties that makes it difficult to bet on long term gains across the board. There are winners and there are losers. What works for one doesn't work for another. Even in prime areas. What ultimately keeps things under control is that the larger real estate market is relatively cheap so the most expensive areas can only get so expensive. It's not the same dynamics as DC or Boston.

I'm not forecasting doom and gloom, hardly at all. But it's not a market where anyone can blindly assume they are going to see steady and reliable appreciation if the long term goal is to make a profit off the house. I do think there's an inherent risk to paying the higher end for properties in Point Breeze and not seeing gains materialize, or even losses. It's a transitional area and there's always that high risk.
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Old 12-17-2019, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia Pa
845 posts, read 529,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXBtoFL View Post
There's always the dangers of confusing anecdotal experience with larger market trends and statistics.

I'm glad things worked out for you (and you had the advantage of buying in 2009 - the nadir of the crash) but it didn't work out for others. You can search the papers about housing crashes in Mount Airy, for example. I looked at several properties in West Mount Airy a few months ago, all had been bought circa 2005-2008, all were being resold, in good condition, for pretty much the same what they paid for 10+ years ago. Lots and lots of properties on the Main Line are selling today what they sold for in 2005-2008.

And more than one (several in fact) realtors have flat out told me the average price for a 1-bed condo in Center City has barely budged in 10 years. (2 bedrooms have appreciated 30%, which does sound great on paper, on the other hand condo HOAs are very high).

The real estate market in Philadelphia is fragmented with different segments chasing after different types of properties that makes it difficult to bet on long term gains across the board. There are winners and there are losers. What works for one doesn't work for another. Even in prime areas. What ultimately keeps things under control is that the larger real estate market is relatively cheap so the most expensive areas can only get so expensive. It's not the same dynamics as DC or Boston.

I'm not forecasting doom and gloom, hardly at all. But it's not a market where anyone can blindly assume they are going to see steady and reliable appreciation if the long term goal is to make a profit off the house. I do think there's an inherent risk to paying the higher end for properties in Point Breeze and not seeing gains materialize, or even losses. It's a transitional area and there's always that high risk.
Right, but there's your issue. If you're looking at Mt. Airy, the Main Line and CC condos, you won't see much appreciation. Those are locations people go for a long-term home for reasons other than investment and appreciation. Not to mention, they are tough to rent and cover your mortgage if you find yourself in that situation. The deals are where explosive growth is happening coupled with housing stock that includes dated (but move-in ready) places. These are getting harder and harder to find, but still exist. This is what I've been alluding to. These can be found in virtually every neighborhood in the city-proper outside of CC.
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Old 12-18-2019, 05:06 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
7,602 posts, read 3,648,829 times
Reputation: 4836
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
You've actually got me confused with another poster. I am actually considering getting rid of my car myself to cut down on that expense. I actually would really love to live somewhere close to Chestnut Hill East line, but I am not sure any of the 'hoods will work out for me. In that case, I'll have to keep the car. I also really like the convenience of day trips and taking my dog places with me.
You're up in my territory now.

Something all three of the neighborhoods that comprise pre-consolidation Germantown Township share is this: their east sides are cheaper than their west sides (and in the case of Germantown and Mount Airy, poorer - though the northern part of East Mount Airy is about as affluent as West Mount Airy).

I would say "the closer you are to Germantown Avenue, the easier it will be to ditch your car." However: I've lived without a car for almost seven years in East Germantown, so if you scope out what's around your intended residence, you probably could too in any of the three neighborhoods.

What specific attributes are you looking for / do you wish to avoid?
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Old 12-18-2019, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
535 posts, read 160,069 times
Reputation: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir View Post
You've actually got me confused with another poster. I am actually considering getting rid of my car myself to cut down on that expense. I actually would really love to live somewhere close to Chestnut Hill East line, but I am not sure any of the 'hoods will work out for me. In that case, I'll have to keep the car. I also really like the convenience of day trips and taking my dog places with me.

Anyway, to Pennsport's point, I am probably looking at something closer to 200-300K. Something not overly rehabbed, but I also want to be able to move in and make adjustments to the place gradually in my time living there. I recently moved to Germantown, and although I love the built/natural environment of the Northwest, I am realizing it is too far from my friends and things I like to do outside of work. I originally moved here to be closer to work, but I don't really feel like its worth it to live this far out. If I move/buy, I would prefer to just take commuter rail up here (rather than 76), which is why...

I'd love to live in Center City, but I also know I am only going to get a 1 br/ba apartment there (not sure if I wanna be that downsized) for that size. West Philly along Baltimore Ave would also be great, but ya gotta go pretty far down Baltimore Ave before prices get that cheap. South Philly is a bit far from work and lacks the greenery I like, but I'd also consider there.
Sounds like proximity to CC is really where you want to be. You may find a 1/1 condo there but HOA fees and taxes easily run $500/month and up.

I suggest finding something livable, not a full rehab, in an area you want to live in that fits your budget. Probably north of CC. It might be a condo but if you can get a rowhouse or twin you will do better with property value over time.

Be selective when it comes to location. You can change the interior, paint the outside and landscape all you like but you can't change where the property is.

It's hard to get everything you want in real estate, so be prepared to make compromises and know what things are deal breakers for you.

Good luck.
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Old 12-18-2019, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia Pa
845 posts, read 529,236 times
Reputation: 820
Instead of trying to talk through this again, I'm just going to show you what I consider a strong buy. OP, in my opinion, these are the kind of places you should be looking for (small sq. footage, no HOAs, low taxes, good locations, very close proximity to CC so no need for a car, vibrant/fun neighborhoods, walkable everywhere, and value will only rise). Really the only thing these don't have on your wish-list is grass and that northwest city feel, and I guess you just have to decide what you want to compromise on.

Note: I'm focusing in the areas I know best, but these kind of places exist in virtually all neighborhoods contingent to CC.

- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6...10177048_zpid/
- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/9...10178006_zpid/
- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...10178537_zpid/
- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1...zpid/?mmlb=g,6

And if you wanted to go real "deal" style, but in somewhat less desirable (but very livable) neighborhoods, or need some additional work, you might try something like these:

- https://www.zillow.com/homes/2213--c...10460208_zpid/
- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...0391888_zpid/?
- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...10202718_zpid/
- https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...0322413_zpid/?

Whatever you decide though, good luck with everything and please keep us posted what you decide over the coming months...

Last edited by Pennsport; 12-18-2019 at 08:42 AM..
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Old 12-18-2019, 09:42 AM
 
978 posts, read 593,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsport View Post
I understand what you're getting at, but disagree a bit. Literally anything bought for hundreds of thousands of dollars has to be considered an investment to some degree. I'm not saying making a profit should be top concern for everyone, but for the large majority of people, they are still "investing" a huge percentage of their net worth into a house purchase.
And that's really all I meant. Unlike your 401(K), a house also has another purpose: it's where one lives. It's unlike any other "investment" for that reason, it's multi-purpose.
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Old 12-18-2019, 10:00 AM
 
4,091 posts, read 2,169,056 times
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In a general look at -Pennsport's listings. The last row is totally nicest for the price, move in ready with nothing to redo.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...0322413_zpid/?

Tiny back space but common in Philly. Interior and exterior totally rehabbed it seems. Only going by listings and pictures. Not locations and nothing more intended.
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