Are couples with young kids still leaving Philly? (Philadelphia, Reading: credit, house prices)

[DXBtoFL]

Originally Posted by Redddog

It's a decision parents make and it's not for the faint of heart. It comes down to whether you feel like you can advocate for your child through the relatively limited choices of good school situations vs the relative ease in which you can achieve that, scholastically, in the burbs. For us, it was down to the question of whether we wanted to have a more culturally rich experience for our children vs a more "sterile" experience you typically find in the burbs. I grew up in the latter (in a burb outside of the city) and vowed that I would try for something different for my kids.

Then there's the whole perceived "safety" thing. I have a different opinion on this as I am someone who grew up in the burbs. There was probably more drugs, alcohol and bad actors in the burbs than you find in the city - they're just wearing polo shirts and vans. Again, you have to find the right situation but when we stayed in the city, we found that there were several parents who were devoted to staying in town and felt as though they received a great education for their kids - as well as a cultural benefit that you can't find elsewhere.

Again, you have to work a bit harder but, in our case, it was well worth it.

A lot of suburban districts are pretty diverse or even majority minority these days. I do run into this idea that the suburbs must be this one type while the city must be this other type (and ignoring most Philadelphia schools are less diverse than most inner suburban schools, they're just heavily AA) and just laugh.

Crime is definitely a lot higher in Philadelphia than in the suburbs. Weed is everywhere. Some people like city living better and accept the tradeoffs but it's not a morally superior lifestyle to living in a bland suburb. The coworkers who live in the suburbs live in places like Merion Station, Wyndmoor, Haddonfield, Swarthmore, and have full access to the urban culture of the city when they want it, and don't have to put up with Krasner as DA and an incompetent and dysfunctional city bureaucracy and indifferent police who doesn't respond to petty theft. So I don't buy this patting myself on the back for having chosen a better lifestyle. You chose something that appeals to you but let's not pretend it's better (especially when judging by crime stats and school scores, it's definitely not "better" and let's not even get into the typical behaviors of city high school kids I see, as there's a magnet not far from my office).

[DXBtoFL]

Originally Posted by skintreesnail

sure, I'm not saying you can't find a rowhouse outside of the city, that's just one of the reasons I listed we like the city. It's really taking into account everything that makes us stay in the city. Media, West Chester, Ardmore, etc. are all nice walkable suburbs with good schools and pretty housing. But there is no PMA, no Reading Terminal Market, no ice skating at city hall, Blocktoberfest, Italian Market festival, Spruce street harbor, Rittenhouse square, Academy of Music, Kimmel Center, TLA, etc. They don't have the same energy with the slew of sidewalk cafes, shops, restaurants, tourists. That's the stuff that makes us stay. The mcMansion comment was really just a general expression of annoyance that I have that they even exist. I know that many of the older towns don't have as many and I know that you can find some in the city. And though a suburb might be considered walkable, how walkable is it really? Would I have several grocery stores, parks, playgrounds, schools, museums, theaters and my office all within a 10-minute walk? I get that not everyone's experience of living in the city is the same, but I'm just sharing the desirable qualities that I see and what influences our decision to raise a child in the city.

My coworkers who live in the suburbs come into the city all the time to take advantage of those cultural amenities. They don't belong to city residents. Most patrons of the Kimmel Center are probably suburbanites. Judging from what I see at Reading, most people are visitors too.

There's no split between city and suburbs like the way you portrayed it. What's the difference between a quiet residential area in Philadelphia proper and outside the city limits? Really, when you get down to it? There are suburbs closer to center city than the far northeast! Merion Station and Bala Cynwyd are closer to Center City than Chestnut Hill....

Or maybe places like Chestnut Hill and Mount Airy aren't really part of the city (I've heard people say this )

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by DXBtoFL

My coworkers who live in the suburbs come into the city all the time to take advantage of those cultural amenities. They don't belong to city residents. Most patrons of the Kimmel Center are probably suburbanites. Judging from what I see at Reading, most people are visitors too.

There's no split between city and suburbs like the way you portrayed it. What's the difference between a quiet residential area in Philadelphia proper and outside the city limits? Really, when you get down to it? There are suburbs closer to center city than the far northeast! Merion Station and Bala Cynwyd are closer to Center City than Chestnut Hill....

Or maybe places like Chestnut Hill and Mount Airy aren't really part of the city (I've heard people say this )

Mount Airy, The Northeast and Chestnut Hill pay city taxes so have more of a right to use city amenities.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by DXBtoFL

A lot of suburban districts are pretty diverse or even majority minority these days. I do run into this idea that the suburbs must be this one type while the city must be this other type (and ignoring most Philadelphia schools are less diverse than most inner suburban schools, they're just heavily AA) and just laugh.

Crime is definitely a lot higher in Philadelphia than in the suburbs. Weed is everywhere. Some people like city living better and accept the tradeoffs but it's not a morally superior lifestyle to living in a bland suburb. The coworkers who live in the suburbs live in places like Merion Station, Wyndmoor, Haddonfield, Swarthmore, and have full access to the urban culture of the city when they want it, and don't have to put up with Krasner as DA and an incompetent and dysfunctional city bureaucracy and indifferent police who doesn't respond to petty theft. So I don't buy this patting myself on the back for having chosen a better lifestyle. You chose something that appeals to you but let's not pretend it's better (especially when judging by crime stats and school scores, it's definitely not "better" and let's not even get into the typical behaviors of city high school kids I see, as there's a magnet not far from my office).

When did I say it was better?

It's more culturally diverse than say, the mainline. That is a fact.

[thedirtypirate]

This phenomenon isn't unique to Philadelphia. In fact, it's more common than not. However, more people are staying in certain parts of the city.

[DXBtoFL]

Originally Posted by 2e1m5a

Mount Airy, The Northeast and Chestnut Hill pay city taxes so have more of a right to use city amenities.

What is this "right?"

You mean subrbanites should be paying more money to use city cultural resources? How and why?

I imagine the lion's share of revenues from center city restaurants and cultural resources are from suburbanites. Who's paying $25 a pop to visit the Philadelphia Museum of Art? Someone from Strawberry Mansion or Bryn Mawr?

You're only talking about "rights" that don't exist in the real world.

[DXBtoFL]

Originally Posted by Redddog

When did I say it was better?

It's more culturally diverse than say, the mainline. That is a fact.

When I look at Philadelphia culture:

Rich white people in Center City.

White hipsters in West Philadelphia and around the periphery of center city, with their identikit coffee shop, bicycle and progressive politics lifestyle.

Poor black people in most of the city. Some poor white trash in Kensington and South Philadelphia

Some pockets of immigrants here and there.

And none of them hang out with each other.

My, it's a culturally diverse city? Whoa! Won't you slay me down!

By contrast, there's a lot of diversity in the suburbs. Most of the immigration growth is in suburban townships, not Philadelphia. The biggest Asian and South Asian communities are in the suburbs. The Hispanics are booming in the suburbs. There's rich people and poor people and everyone in between.

Even the Main Line ain't lily white. And who primarily funds the city's art scenes, the museums and patronizes the arts and culture? Suburbanites.... especially suburbanites from the Main Line. Open the donor pages and where do most of the big pockets live? Main Line.

I live in Center City. I like the urban lifestyle and would far rather live here than in a Main Line colonial but I'm not kidding myself that it's somehow more enriched.

[Redddog]

M'okay.

[skintreesnail]

I really didn't mean to start some city vs suburbs debate. I like the city and I plan to stay there and raise my child was all I was trying to convey. If I moved to the suburbs I most certainly would be bored, annoyed by the commute, and wouldn't make the same effort to travel to center City. I grew up in the country and my wife the suburbs (not Philly). We enjoy the life we have now and my child does too. Everyone is different and i know there are nice old suburbs here. all I wanted to express was that some families are indeed staying in the city and prefer it to the suburbs.

[DXBtoFL]

Originally Posted by Redddog

M'okay.

Yeah. I especially love all the spoiled suburban brats who move to a gentrifying neighborhood and talk about how cool it is and the local craft beer bars and bike lanes, and then in the next sentence whine about their ghetto neighbors and the trash and the crime and how they can't wait for the neighborhood to finish gentrifying by kicking out all the old residents to be replaced with the same spoiled suburban brats, and then five years later when little junior hits kindergarten, they pack up and move back to the suburbs.