Trying to Understand Why Everyone Hates Philly? (Philadelphia, York: 2009, loft)

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by doubledownmom

I don't know how to "fix" philly, but I sure can't wait to move....

I'm sorry to hear that you've been upset by your experiences, but that's city life in general. You're going to see homeless people, drug addicts, pollution, etc. If this turns you off (as it evidently have), then city living clearly wasn't for you in the first place.

Side note: Center City has cleaned up drastically. 10-15 years ago, there weren't many people who would think about going into the city to live, have fun. Not to say it's immune from crime today, but, in comparison to other Philly 'hoods, I'm kind of suspicious of any claims "fear" to walk around Center City.

Good luck with your move, however.

[Kriskupn]

This thread has been interesting to me, to say the least. :-) I was born and raised in Philly (Mayfair and Port Richmond) and worked in CC. About 6 years ago, I got the bright idea to move to Clearwater, FL...you know - had a GREAT vacation, why not move there?!?! Well, there is no culture, no public transportation, not a lot of job choices (I have an MBA)...but there are a lot of people trying to escape their pasts, pedophiles, teachers having sex with their students, etc. So, please note this "stuff" doesn't only happen in the "big city". It happens in the touristy "little cities" too. Ugh, can't wait to get back to Philly! :-)

[abbmac]

Someone is going to have to explain the whole "people are mean because they don't smile and say hi when I walk by" argument. If I don't know you, why would I say hi to you when you walk by? Has everyone on the planet decided they are just so special that it's a personal affront to them if they are not greeted everywhere with a smile? Here in Philadelphia (and the northeast in general) we might not be chatty with passing strangers on the street, but you can be who you are without us blinking. In the south, oh they'll greet you with a smile, and then judge the heck out of you behind you back. I know which one I prefer. Philadelphia might be gritty, but at least it's real.

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by abbmac

Someone is going to have to explain the whole "people are mean because they don't smile and say hi when I walk by" argument. If I don't know you, why would I say hi to you when you walk by? Has everyone on the planet decided they are just so special that it's a personal affront to them if they are not greeted everywhere with a smile? Here in Philadelphia (and the northeast in general) we might not be chatty with passing strangers on the street, but you can be who you are without us blinking. In the south, oh they'll greet you with a smile, and then judge the heck out of you behind you back. I know which one I prefer. Philadelphia might be gritty, but at least it's real.

Here in Scranton I say "Good morning" or "good afternoon" to people as I pass them on the sidewalk on my runs, and 95% of them return my gesture. Scranton isn't podunk by any means either---we're a decent-sized city. If anything that speaks volumes about Philadelphians if they're not only this standoff-ish towards strangers that they won't even say a simple "Hi" when they pass you but are also indifferent about the negative impression this gives to outsiders.

[juniperbleu]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

Here in Scranton I say "Good morning" or "good afternoon" to people as I pass them on the sidewalk on my runs, and 95% of them return my gesture. Scranton isn't podunk by any means either---we're a decent-sized city. If anything that speaks volumes about Philadelphians if they're not only this standoff-ish towards strangers that they won't even say a simple "Hi" when they pass you but are also indifferent about the negative impression this gives to outsiders.

I think the main confusion is the idea of how many people you're talking about. When I go to work, I don't pass one or two, I pass at least 10 or 20 all at once. Greeting each one just isn't feasible. If I happen to catch someone's eye, then sure, I'll give them a smile, but otherwise I'd spend my whole walk going "hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi hi" nonstop. If I'm greeted on the street, it's usually because they want something.

This isn't unique to Philly. I've heard people complain about the same thing in DC and other cities as well. It seems to be a pretty common urban phenomenon, so if it's seen as "negative" by visitors, then a large city is not for them. Of course, I've never been greeted when I go to Scranton, Allentown, or Bethlehem either, so maybe the greetings there only go to locals.

[From Philly]

A lot of good points were made on this thread. For, and against, Philly.

I think the way someone sees the city depends (largely) on how/when/where they grew up in the city.

Up until I was 5 we lived in Kensington. Right around B St. and Indiana Ave. From what I remember, the area was never bad back then (around 1977). However, my mother and father said we were moving because the area was starting to go down hill. I didn't see it. But you couldn't pay me to walk a block down there now. So, I guess mom and dad were right back then. They saw what was coming. Then, once we moved from there, we moved up into the NE/Tacony section. Around Tyson Ave. and Torresdale. Which was even better! That was like moving to the suburbs back then. LOL (and I lived there for 17 years......husband lived there in that area all his life before we moved 4 years ago)

Growing up around that area was simply great. My friends and I had our hangout spots, people were really nice, the area was clean, there was lots to do, the schools and teachers were awesome, etc. However, having grown up and started a family of my own, your idea of what's good and tolerable tends to change. You want more, better for your kids. You see the decline that maybe you refused to see when you were a kid and when you didn't have the responsibility of raising a family. All the bad now sticks out like a sore thumb and it's there to remind you every day that all isn't well. Of course, no place is 100% perfect. We know that.

And so, like my parents who wanted to do better for me, my husband and I wanted to do better for our kid. We simply refused to stay in an area that was going down hill fast. In that nice little neighborhood of Tacony, before we moved, it wasn't uncommon to find/hear about crack and ***** houses. People getting robbed, killed, kids getting their bikes stolen right out from under them when riding it, cars being stolen/broken into, homes getting robbed, property values declining, taxes, etc. Not to mention the schools! Our kid was in a public school that did absolutely nothing when it came to disciplining the out of control kids. So they simply ran the school and tormented the smaller children. Not to mention that each of his classes had no less than 34 kids. Some even had 38!!!!!!!!! 38!!!!!!!!!! That's insane. Anyway, we couldn't stay any longer and decided to move.

No, not every area is perfect. Like I said above. But, there are still some that are as close to perfect as you can get. We now live in a great area and are really happy here. The schools are huge and clean. They don't tolerate any nonsense from the kids. There are no more than 22 kids per class. And yes, this is public schools we are talking about. The neighborhood is clean and cleaned regularly. NO graffiti. There are big beautiful old homes like Philly had. There is practically no crime. There was ONE murder here in the last 4 years. We have no city traffic. Things are more laid back, calm. Less people, Etc. I could go on forever about all the nice things.

But like I said, every place has it's good and bad. I guess when living in an area you have to determine whether or not the good out weighs the bad and how much of the bad are you willing to live with. I could complain about some bad things here too (i.e, like most stores close around 6pm) but they are trivial compared to the bad in Philly (i.e, too much crime).

I think everyone has a right to their own opinion about Philly and other areas. What might be good for one person may not be for another. It doesn't make either person bad or good or right or wrong, just different. You have to do what you think is right for yourself and your family. Everyone's perception of what is bad and what is good is different. No one is wrong if what they are doing they believe is for the benefit, health and happiness of their family. But this is all JMO of course. Sorry this was so long.

[coldblooded36]

Philly's best assets are its affordability and its proximity to NY. While the job market isn't great, salaries seem to be, for the most part, comparable to those in NY/DC, and with the extremely low cost of living allows people to have certain comforts down here they might not enjoy in NY.

The public transportation down here is really a nightmare. For such a geographically compact city there is really a severe lack of direct bus routes. It shouldn't take an hour and 3 busses to go between what are basically adjacent neighborhoods. There are also too many heavily traveled routes that are severely short in frequency of runs. In all the cities I've lived in I have never seen it this bad and the riders so accustomed to it.

While 2008 has seen a decrease in crime and the new mayor surely has the city pointed in the right direction, crime really is rampant here. There is, in general, a real ignorance and apathy among the citizens here that I have never seen anywhere else, and I feel that this contributes to the crime. While this may be confined to areas outside of downtown, it trickles down everywhere. The recent robbery/killings are clearly evidence of this. While these unfortunate incidents happen in every city, they occur with much more frequency in Philadelphia. Another example of the crime issue: In the past 2 years, 3 cops in philadelphia have been killed, compared to 1 cop being killed in the same time frame in NYC. (NYC has 36,000 police officers, Philadelphia 6,600).

The disparity between the haves and have-nots in philadelphia is more pronounced than in any city I've ever lived in. "Riverfront" condos are being built at an incredible pace while what were once safe, middle class neighborhoods (i.e. lower northeast) steadily decline. The colleges and hospitals really serve as a lifeline here..without them..who knows

Aside from the immediate area around Rittenhouse, CC is really not that appealing. Market and chestnut east of Broad is basically a bunch Foot lockers, a burlington coat factory, a gigantic Kmart..Not what you expect to find in most downtowns..I see alot of people on this board blaming Philly's detractors on those who cannot afford to live there, which is silly. I find CC much less visually appealing than many other parts of the city, find it to have a much less vibrant, centralized nightlife than most other cities I've lived in. There is more nightlife/culture in the outer boroughs of NYC than philly. If I had the kind of money to live in Center City Philadelphia, unless I was from here and this is where my friends/family were located (or my job was unique to philly) I would spend my money elsewhere.

I'm not just trying to trash philly, these are my honest opinions. I live here now and plan on staying for at least acouple years, but there are so many clear undisguisable problems down here that they have to be mentioned

[Miami305Kid]

Not trying to be rude but I think many people hate or dislike Philly because of its crime. North Philly, West Philly, and parts of South Philly are infamous for their crime which makes a lot of out-of-towners feel uncomfortable. Also parts of Northeast Philly don't even look like a city. You can't see skyscrapers or busy streets with taxi cabs like you do in NY so people assume Philly isn't a great city, which isn't true.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by coldblooded36

Philly's best assets are its affordability and its proximity to NY.

In all due respect take the blinders off. 98% of the people in the Philadlephia area could care less about being in close proximity to NYC. What a bunch of narcissistic,self involved, egomanical bullcrap.

Classic.NYers come down down to live in Philly and they proclaim the best part of Philaldephia is its proximity to NYC. No. The best part FOR YOU is its close proximity to NYC because you are homesick. Probably 2% of the native people in the Philadlephia area give NYC a second thought. Thats not to say NYC doesnt have some fantastic attributes.


There is alot more to NYC than trendy midtown and parts of Brooklyn.Tell the whole story.Dont harp on the bad aspects of Philadlephia and then turn around and give us Midtown and Park Slope.What about the Bronx, huge swaths of Queens/Broolyn? You let us know about Philadlephias crime, what about NYC's? You somehow conveniently left that part out of the equation.

Originally Posted by coldblooded36

While 2008 has seen a decrease in crime and the new mayor surely has the city pointed in the right direction, crime really is rampant here. There is, in general, a real ignorance and apathy among the citizens here that I have never seen anywhere else, and I feel that this contributes to the crime. While this may be confined to areas outside of downtown, it trickles down everywhere. The recent robbery/killings are clearly evidence of this.

This would be easier to digest if it werent coming from a NY'er. Have you checked NYC Comp Stat recently. You might want to hold off on highlighting other cities crime problems. You are having enough problems of your own in NYC in the first 6 months of 2008. Like 20,000 grand larcenies. 10,000 robberies.9200 burglaries.7700 assaults.700 rapes.250 murders. There are 45 people a day getting assaulted in NYC.

Originally Posted by coldblooded36

The colleges and hospitals really serve as a lifeline here..without them..who knows

There is currently 5 Billion dollars worth of projects going on in Center City and University City.Condos,Class A office space,educational,cultural improvements.

Some call colleges and hospitals a lifeline, others call them a normal part of the fabric of what makes up a great city.Universities and colleges in Philaldephia act no differently then they do in most cities.

Fortune 500 companies in Center City Philadlephia
Sunoco
Comcast
Cigna
Aramark
Rohm & Haas
Lincoln Financial
Unisys
Crown Holdings
Soverign Bankcorp
Pep Boys

750 retail/restaurant establishments in Center City alone.2 of the best urban neighborhoods in the country Chestnut Hill + Center City. Fairmount Park is 11x bigger than Central Park.Northeast Philly has 250,000 middle class residents,NW Philly is one of the best parcels of any city in the country.

Originally Posted by coldblooded36

Aside from the immediate area around Rittenhouse, CC is really not that appealing. Market and chestnut east of Broad is basically a bunch Foot lockers, a burlington coat factory, a gigantic Kmart..Not what you expect to find in most downtowns..I see alot of people on this board blaming Philly's detractors on those who cannot afford to live there, which is silly. I find CC much less visually appealing than many other parts of the city, find it to have a much less vibrant, centralized nightlife than most other cities I've lived in. There is more nightlife/culture in the outer boroughs of NYC than philly. If I had the kind of money to live in Center City Philadelphia, unless I was from here and this is where my friends/family were located (or my job was unique to philly) I would spend my money elsewhere.

I agree that certain areas of immediate Center City(Market east in particular) leave alot to be desired and quite frankly its mind boggling they are allowed to remain in their condition. That being said University City is picking up its slack and Center City boundaries include some amazing neighborhoods beside Rittenhouse. Such as Soceity Hill,Fitler Square,Art Museum,Bella Vista,Queen Village,Spring Garden,Old City etc.

[DailyJournalist]

Originally Posted by rainrock

In all due respect take the blinders off. 98% of the people in the Philadlephia area could care less about being in close proximity to NYC. What a bunch of narcissistic,self involved, egomanical bullcrap.

Classic.NYers come down down to live in Philly and they proclaim the best part of Philaldephia is its proximity to NYC. No. The best part FOR YOU is its close proximity to NYC because you are homesick. Probably 2% of the native people in the Philadlephia area give NYC a second thought. Thats not to say NYC doesnt have some fantastic attributes.


There is alot more to NYC than trendy midtown and parts of Brooklyn.Tell the whole story.Dont harp on the bad aspects of Philadlephia and then turn around and give us Midtown and Park Slope.What about the Bronx, huge swaths of Queens/Broolyn? You let us know about Philadlephias crime, what about NYC's? You somehow conveniently left that part out of the equation.





This would be easier to digest if it werent coming from a NY'er. Have you checked NYC Comp Stat recently. You might want to hold off on highlighting other cities crime problems. You are having enough problems of your own in NYC in the first 6 months of 2008. Like 20,000 grand larcenies. 10,000 robberies.9200 burglaries.7700 assaults.700 rapes.250 murders. There are 45 people a day getting assaulted in NYC.




There is currently 5 Billion dollars worth of projects going on in Center City and University City.Condos,Class A office space,educational,cultural improvements.

Some call colleges and hospitals a lifeline, others call them a normal part of the fabric of what makes up a great city.Universities and colleges in Philaldephia act no differently then they do in most cities.

Fortune 500 companies in Center City Philadlephia
Sunoco
Comcast
Cigna
Aramark
Rohm & Haas
Lincoln Financial
Unisys
Crown Holdings
Soverign Bankcorp
Pep Boys

750 retail/restaurant establishments in Center City alone.2 of the best urban neighborhoods in the country Chestnut Hill + Center City. Fairmount Park is 11x bigger than Central Park.Northeast Philly has 250,000 middle class residents,NW Philly is one of the best parcels of any city in the country.



I agree that certain areas of immediate Center City(Market east in particular) leave alot to be desired and quite frankly its mind boggling they are allowed to remain in their condition. That being said University City is picking up its slack and Center City boundaries include some amazing neighborhoods beside Rittenhouse. Such as Soceity Hill,Fitler Square,Art Museum,Bella Vista,Queen Village,Spring Garden,Old City etc.

Very well said and the reason I am moving to Philly soon. If you want crime, come down to Mickey Mouse Land (Orlando, FL) where I am currently living and see our crime statistics, for a tourist area you will be suprised at the crime. Every major city has crime, when a person moves they need to find a place that provides the best balance between work (pay, availability) and family (schools, standard of living). I believe Philly offers this mix for myself and my family but it may not be the best for others.