Why Is Manayunk/Roxborough Real Estate So Cheap? (Philadelphia, York: apartment, crime)

[Muinteoir]

And will that change? Obviously, all real estate is seeing major appreciation in this time. Yet I am surprised at the area's sustained relative affordability compared to other safe neighborhoods.

Yes, I get the area suffers from two enduring drawbacks that tempers appreciation to a degree:
1) The relative distance from Center City
2) The "college bro infested" stereotype

Number 1 is of course a permanent feature of the neighborhood, but the Norristown Highspeed Line is a pretty decent remedy. Perhaps with increased frequency and extended hours, this drawback would diminish in importance.

Number 2 I think holds a bit of truth, and yes, those past college age can feel out of place in certain Main Street establishments, but the neighborhood is by no means wholly dominated by this crowd. I see people of all ages, and notice so many young families out enjoying the neighborhood.

Those are the two biggest drawbacks compared to the rest of the city that I notice. Otherwise, the neighborhood has so much to boast:

-It is relatively safe.

-It is a great midpoint between Center City and KoP employment centers.

-The neighborhood is basically complete with grocery stores, restaurants, nightlife, parks, public transit to Center City, etc.

-It is one of the better neighborhoods for access to nature, hiking, and trails (the Wissahickon + the Schuylkill River Trail).

-Some of the area's elementary schools are well-rated (Cook-Wissahickon, for instance).

And I could go on. I am just surprised the area has as little draw as it does, given all of its pros. Am I missing something?

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

And will that change? Obviously, all real estate is seeing major appreciation in this time. Yet I am surprised at the area's sustained relative affordability compared to other safe neighborhoods.

Yes, I get the area suffers from two enduring drawbacks that tempers appreciation to a degree:
1) The relative distance from Center City
2) The "college bro infested" stereotype

Number 1 is of course a permanent feature of the neighborhood, but the Norristown Highspeed Line is a pretty decent remedy. Perhaps with increased frequency and extended hours, this drawback would diminish in importance.

Number 2 I think holds a bit of truth, and yes, those past college age can feel out of place in certain Main Street establishments, but the neighborhood is by no means wholly dominated by this crowd. I see people of all ages, and notice so many young families out enjoying the neighborhood.

Those are the two biggest drawbacks compared to the rest of the city that I notice. Otherwise, the neighborhood has so much to boast:

-It is relatively safe.

-It is a great midpoint between Center City and KoP employment centers.

-The neighborhood is basically complete with grocery stores, restaurants, nightlife, parks, public transit to Center City, etc.

-It is one of the better neighborhoods for access to nature, hiking, and trails (the Wissahickon + the Schuylkill River Trail).

-Some of the area's elementary schools are well-rated (Cook-Wissahickon, for instance).

And I could go on. I am just surprised the area has as little draw as it does, given all of its pros. Am I missing something?

Manayunk isn’t Center City or Fishtown expensive, but it’s not cheap, either. It’s certainly not affordable to the same degree as Roxborough, which is more akin to the Far Northeast—especially toward the Montgomery County border. Regional rail to Center City is fairly quick, but it’s not as convenient as an el or subway ride, or even hopping on a bus in one of the greater CC neighborhoods.

Manayunk was hot in the ‘90s and earlier ‘00s. We went there a lot for shopping and dining, it just being over the Green Lane Bridge from the Main Line. The neighborhood hasn’t really evolved much since then. While young professionals and empty nesters were neck and neck with the college and grad student crowd at one time, it’s very much turned over to a playground for St. Joe’s and LaSalle (and sundry other college) students. Conshohocken has taken over as the primary hub for young professionals and empty nesters in that direction, which makes sense for a variety of reasons. The issue is not Manayunk during the day, but Manayunk on Thursday through Saturday nights.

[Muinteoir]

All fair points, Elijah. I do believe Manayunk/Roxborough is the most affordable area that falls within a “green zone” on the official Philadelphia crime map. But perhaps that title belongs to the far Northeast?

I imagine if you live within a couple blocks of Main Street, the noise and mayhem could be an issue. Otherwise I imagine it is ignorable. Perhaps some residents of the area can weigh in on that.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

All fair points, Elijah. I do believe Manayunk/Roxborough is the most affordable area that falls within a “green zone” on the official Philadelphia crime map. But perhaps that title belongs to the far Northeast?

I imagine if you live within a couple blocks of Main Street, the noise and mayhem could be an issue. Otherwise I imagine it is ignorable. Perhaps some residents of the area can weigh in on that.

I still think you need to consider Manayunk separately from Roxborough. Yes, they’re next to one another, and yes, realtors pushed hard to make Roxborough the next Manayunk. But aside from a smattering of new residential construction along the Manayunk border, it never really took off in that direction.

I would also think that even if you can escape the weekend evening noise by staying at home, feeling like you have to take refuge from hard partying college students defeats the purpose of living in a neighborhood like Manayunk in the first place.

[Muinteoir]

Fair enough. Even still, I think all of the pros I mentioned endure, although truthfully parts of roxborough are pretty far from the train.

Is it really that bad along Main Street Thursday-Saturday? Admittedly I haven’t gone out there at that time.

[thedirtypirate]

Location is everything. It's just not that close to Center City compared to a bunch of other places. Don't discount city taxes and the school district either in reasons why housing prices might be somewhat depressed. So if I had to name the top three things it's: location, taxes/schools, and the housing stock is old and the houses are small. I like it for all the reasons you mentioned.

[Muinteoir]

Originally Posted by thedirtypirate

Location is everything. It's just not that close to Center City compared to a bunch of other places. Don't discount city taxes and the school district either in reasons why housing prices might be somewhat depressed. So if I had to name the top three things it's: location, taxes/schools, and the housing stock is old and the houses are small. I like it for all the reasons you mentioned.

Yes. The distance from Center City will always temper prices to a degree. Aren't Philadelphia's property taxes on par or lower than most of the suburbs? True, however, that if you work in the city they get you with the higher wage tax.

[MarketStEl]

If you work in the city and own property, it's probably still cheaper to live in the city when you add wage and property taxes together. Suburbanites who work in the city pay the city wage tax too, but at a slightly lower rate. And I think when you add the higher suburban property taxes to that, the total bill comes out higher.

As for affordability: I've seen, and featured, million-dollar-plus listings in Manayunk. I have yet to see these in Roxborough. And pace "the Ridge," Roxborough's development patterns are more suburban in form, and (in contrast to Northwest Philadelphia above the Wissahickon) more Auto Age suburban in form, than Manayunk's are; Manayunk is an old mill town and looks like one, only with a lively Main Street (that's actually called Main Street).

(Data point in support of the distinction I draw here: Internally, SEPTA considers Bus Route 9, one of only two routes that run the entire length of Roxborough (the other is Route 27, which goes up Henry Avenue), a suburban bus route and schedules it accordingly.)

Muinteoir: Don't you mean the Manayunk/Norristown Regional Rail line? SEPTA really needs to rethink the way it runs Regional Rail, and the pandemic was a great time for it to do the rethinking, but it looks like that window of opportunity is going to close.

[banjozac]

Roxborough is undergoing a huge development boom. There are large apartment buildings going up all over the place, particularly on former auto uses on Ridge Avenue. Roxborough doesn’t have the Manayunk Main Street clout, but it is becoming an affordable destination for young families. It has diverse housing – ranging from rowhouses and Victorian twins, to suburban styled homes and townhomes with garages.

[Muinteoir]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

If you work in the city and own property, it's probably still cheaper to live in the city when you add wage and property taxes together. Suburbanites who work in the city pay the city wage tax too, but at a slightly lower rate. And I think when you add the higher suburban property taxes to that, the total bill comes out higher.

Yes, I thought that might be the case. I recently purchased my first home in Philadelphia. My family and friends are surprised when I tell them my annual property tax bill. The property tax rate is lower than many small cities in Upstate New York, for instance.

As for affordability: I've seen, and featured, million-dollar-plus listings in Manayunk. I have yet to see these in Roxborough. And pace "the Ridge," Roxborough's development patterns are more suburban in form, and (in contrast to Northwest Philadelphia above the Wissahickon) more Auto Age suburban in form, than Manayunk's are; Manayunk is an old mill town and looks like one, only with a lively Main Street (that's actually called Main Street).

(Data point in support of the distinction I draw here: Internally, SEPTA considers Bus Route 9, one of only two routes that run the entire length of Roxborough (the other is Route 27, which goes up Henry Avenue), a suburban bus route and schedules it accordingly.)

Muinteoir: Don't you mean the Manayunk/Norristown Regional Rail line? SEPTA really needs to rethink the way it runs Regional Rail, and the pandemic was a great time for it to do the rethinking, but it looks like that window of opportunity is going to close.

Yet even for residents of the area, the line between Manayunk and Roxborough is blurred, and it all depends on who you ask. Some may say Manayunk is strictly the 19127 zip. In which case, there is plenty of old-style urban form in Roxborough, especially west of Ridge. But yes, once you get up toward Ridge, and certainly by Henry Ave, it is not the tight-knit urban form you see in 19127.

Yes, I did mean that line. I forgot that the Norristown High Speed Line is another route altogether. I bet I am not the first to confuse the names -- it seems they'd name the two a bit more distinctly from one another.

I completely agree about reimagining Regional Rail. If they could start by simply increasing frequency and hours of operation, that'd go a huge way in making our outer neighborhoods and inner suburbs less car-dependent.