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And I can tell you that most are moving OUT of the city, not into the city.. Thats a fact. Please don't sugarcoat it. Its been happening over the last 25 years and its gonna continue.
I didn't sugarcoat anything.....as you would say, I'm only speaking about my experiences. Your first quoted sentence may be true.....then again it may not. It seems to me that the population of the city is stabilizing and will start to grow. The mass outmigration that destabilized the city in the 60's, 70's and 80's will end this decade with the population continuing to grow over the coming decades through return migration and immigration. This is strictly opinion, but an educated one. The census will bear that out.
As long as the car is the only means of transportation in and around the suburbs, the suburbs are poised to fail as car transportation becomes vastly more expensive in the coming decades. (By the way i feel the NE is more of a suburban area and unless public transportation improves it is poised for failure also.) I predict that with the rise in auto costs you will start seeing vacant homes in the exurbs, much like you saw in the inner city now.
It's already cheaper to live in the city. Taxes are a wash with property taxes being higher in the burbs vs. higher wage tax in the city. I don't need a car....i have one for convenience but I only use it once or twice a week. Less maintenance. Less gas. My car insurance is slightly higher. I walk everywhere. I'm in good shape as a result. Less doctor's visits. Homes are built to last. My home is stone and brick. Most surban homes are vinyl and plywood. They will start to fail @ 30 years vs. 100+ for city homes. I'd say that my 70 yo home will last longer than most of the crap suburban homes being built today (and the homes built in the last 30 years as well). Restaurants are better. This is a big quality of life issue for me. If crap chain restos and fast food do it for you, then I just don't understand you.
i do agree that the public education system in the city is a major issue, but there are presently good options. This will improve as investment in neighborhoods continue.
Suburbia is not the panacea you think it is.....I recognized the illusion. Many do not. Give it some time. In the meantime I will use the vast cultural, transportation, and economic resources offered to me by living in the city and watch as people discover the suburban illusion and return to city living.
This is what I get caught up in when I take a day off from work.....Jeez.
G Goo, personally, I would wait until the pioneers have settled and gentrified Philadelphia before I would consider moving there. There is way too much crime, blight, high-taxes, nepotism, ineffective and corrupt politicians and a rampant prison mentality (related to common courtesies and manners). It is a great city, there are tangible positive changes, but overall its better days are long gone, and may never return.
As long as Philadelphia continues to tax its way to prosperity on the backs of hard working individuals it will not progress beyond a few random blocks of recovery. Those who can and have the means will continue to relocate outside of the city. Which leaves behind those who can’t and don’t and no amount of tax money will change their mentality or lifestyles. Our country as a whole, which may be another discussion, has seen its better days as well, and neo-socialists will take the city and our country down another few notches.
Too late. Live here now and loving it. Sorry to dispel your notions. My tax burden is LESS in the city than it was in the burbs. Why does this myth continue?
Prison mentality? Sigh. On a daily basis I am struck by the pragmatism and general friendliness of Philadelphians. Is it southern-style sugary? Nope. Thankfully. I've commented on this topic before.....another myth.
Too late. Live here now and loving it. Sorry to dispel your notions. My tax burden is LESS in the city than it was in the burbs. Why does this myth continue?
Prison mentality? Sigh. On a daily basis I am struck by the pragmatism and general friendliness of Philadelphians. Is it southern-style sugary? Nope. Thankfully. I've commented on this topic before.....another myth.
not ours.. With the city wage tax and both us working it hit us way harder then the suburbs prop tax. Its not a myth.. Not even considering the $$ saved on car insurance moving out of the city too.
I didn't sugarcoat anything.....as you would say, I'm only speaking about my experiences. Your first quoted sentence may be true.....then again it may not. It seems to me that the population of the city is stabilizing and will start to grow. The mass outmigration that destabilized the city in the 60's, 70's and 80's will end this decade with the population continuing to grow over the coming decades through return migration and immigration. This is strictly opinion, but an educated one. The census will bear that out.
As long as the car is the only means of transportation in and around the suburbs, the suburbs are poised to fail as car transportation becomes vastly more expensive in the coming decades. (By the way i feel the NE is more of a suburban area and unless public transportation improves it is poised for failure also.) I predict that with the rise in auto costs you will start seeing vacant homes in the exurbs, much like you saw in the inner city now.
It's already cheaper to live in the city. Taxes are a wash with property taxes being higher in the burbs vs. higher wage tax in the city. I don't need a car....i have one for convenience but I only use it once or twice a week. Less maintenance. Less gas. My car insurance is slightly higher. I walk everywhere. I'm in good shape as a result. Less doctor's visits. Homes are built to last. My home is stone and brick. Most surban homes are vinyl and plywood. They will start to fail @ 30 years vs. 100+ for city homes. I'd say that my 70 yo home will last longer than most of the crap suburban homes being built today (and the homes built in the last 30 years as well). Restaurants are better. This is a big quality of life issue for me. If crap chain restos and fast food do it for you, then I just don't understand you.
i do agree that the public education system in the city is a major issue, but there are presently good options. This will improve as investment in neighborhoods continue.
Suburbia is not the panacea you think it is.....I recognized the illusion. Many do not. Give it some time. In the meantime I will use the vast cultural, transportation, and economic resources offered to me by living in the city and watch as people discover the suburban illusion and return to city living.
This is what I get caught up in when I take a day off from work.....Jeez.
Done em both and I can honestly tell ya the restaurants out of the city (at least in the NE) are a lot better. Besides, I can always drive into the city anytimen I want to experience anything you do.. The only restaurant we loved in the city was the capital Grill in CC and now that one is opened in Cherry Hill, no need to get to the city at all
Suburban quality of life is most certainly not a myth. Done em both and we will take our MUCH better built suburban home (Built in the late 50's) over our previous 1950's built row home that had newspaper used as insulation behind the plaster walls .. No kidding..
Look at the crime, vandalism, graffiti in the city and compare it to where we live now. Its a whole different ballgame..
not ours.. With the city wage tax and both us working it hit us way harder then the suburbs prop tax. Its not a myth.. Not even considering the $$ saved on car insurance moving out of the city too.
my car insurance is $10 more a month than it was in Glenside. Plus I have one less car. I don't NEED another $25,000 car. Nor will i need to buy one for my daughter when she becomes of age. Suburban parents have to provide their kids a car. No choice. I know this b/c I was a suburban teen with a job once. That's 3 cars, at least, for most suburban families. Please explain to me how that's cheaper.
For all the reasons I stated I'll roll the dice that the wage tax will go down incrementally. Could take a while, but it will. Property taxes in the burbs continue to go up. Just ask my parents out in Doylestown. I lived in Glenside (Abington). My property taxes plus the 1% wage tax was slightly more than the wage tax plus my very low property taxes here.
The only restaurant we loved in the city was the capital Grill in CC and now that one is opened in Cherry Hill, no need to get to the city at all
Uhhh. yeah. No offense but you need to get out more. First of all the Capital Grill is a chain so on that principle, I'm out (another discussion altogehter). Second of all, Philly is becoming one of the best food cities in the country. There is very little to compare in the burbs. Believe me, I know, food is a particular love of mine. There is no discussion to be had here. Oh and also, quality suburban restaurants are much, much more expensive because there is less competition. And the service is usually lacking b/c there are less career servers in the burbs. You get teens serving you in the burbs, you get pros in the city.
Uhhh. yeah. No offense but you need to get out more. First of all the Capital Grill is a chain so on that principle, I'm out (another discussion altogehter). Second of all, Philly is becoming one of the best food cities in the country. There is very little to compare in the burbs. Believe me, I know, food is a particular love of mine. There is no discussion to be had here. Oh and also, quality suburban restaurants are much, much more expensive because there is less competition. And the service is usually lacking b/c there are less career servers in the burbs. You get teens serving you in the burbs, you get pros in the city.
48 years in the city my man.. We will take the restaurants in S Jersey anyway. .. We are not foo type French restaurant people. Capital grill is the best steak we have ever had.. Excuse me if there are a few others around.. Oh and btw its cheaper in Cherry hill cause there is NO $20 parking fee when you go to the capital grill in Jersey. Food prices are exactly the same so I have NO idea where you get that from.
And the car thing.. we have 3 cars and soon to have 4.. We love driving.. And like a I said we saved moving to SJ from the NE. Almost 1/2 what we paid in the city.. The accidents and the rate the cars are stolen, and you are paying for all the uninsured drivers in the city. (20% of the people do not have insurance so say my cop buddies). Thats why its so high..
I agree. CC is a whole nother world. CC will always attract the upper class making the most $$. I was talking about the middle class areas like the whole NE mostly.. They are the tax base areas anyway. Thats where the city is losing the battle..
I do not agree with you when you say its heading in an upward trend. OVERALL the city is heading in a downward spiral. There are just to many welfare families that are into their 3 and 4th generation here and they just keep on breeding like rabbits... widening the welfare population at an incredible rate.
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Your experiences may have clearly led you to believe that the city is currently on the wrong path, but many others living there would give you the exact opposite opinion -- it's all a matter of perspective. Nevertheless, it's just factually wrong to claim that the city's population is still in decline.
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Your experiences may have clearly led you to believe that the city is currently on the wrong path, but you're just factually wrong if you say the city's population is still in decline.
agreed!
What I said was that the population of the working class tax base is declining (even overall the whole city population is indeed declining) and the only reason it as stable as it is due to the welfare single mothers popping out kids like its a contest. Look at the population mix change over the last 25 years if you don't believe me. Why do you think the city is in such dire straits? Non working welfare familys 4 generations in sucking off the hard working people the city has left.. Its sad really..
Suburban quality of life is most certainly not a myth. Done em both and we will take our MUCH better built suburban home (Built in the late 50's) over our previous 1950's built row home that had newspaper used as insulation behind the plaster walls .. No kidding...
Insulation can be blown in. Easy fix. My parents live in a '50's split-level that has been well maintained.....as best as they could. I could kick through their walls. I'm sure you could also. The maintenance on the asbestos shingles, vinyl siding, windows etc is constant b/c once water gets through those thin materials then it's rot city. Brick, stone.....less yearly maintenance. My home in Glenside was OK. But was a constant struggle to upkeep. My stone and brick twin now? Piece of cake and built to last. Our airlite in Mayfair as well. Brick. Quality. Sure there was no insulation but if we stayed there we could have put it in....and it was a row....we were insulated by our neighbors. I'm sure you live in a single. Less efficient than a row. By far.
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The only restaurant we loved in the city was the capital Grill in CC and now that one is opened in Cherry Hill, no need to get to the city at all
.. We are not foo type French restaurant people. Capital grill is the best steak we have ever had.. Excuse me if there are a few others around..
Oh and btw its cheaper in Cherry hill cause there is NO $20 parking fee when you go to the capital grill in Jersey. Food prices are exactly the same so I have NO idea where you get that from. 
