Penn and NJ taxation comparison

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by Tone509

<rubs eyes>Wait a minute... did I just read you repping for PA? It must be the holidays.

(I just had to needle you a little bit. )

No, he's not repping for PA. In his world, it's a bragging right to get less house for the money.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

The Main Line has suffered tremendously over the past 100 years and it has been on the relative decline ever since.

Agreed there are a few older working class areas of the Main Line(protected neighborhoods much like the towns you defend in South jersey) and Lancaster Ave leaves alot to be desired as a commercial/retail strip that should represent one of the wealthiest sustained areas in the country. I've let my feelings known numerous times to Montgomery County + delaware County chamber of commerces about improving Lancaster ave..

That being said your above comment is preposterous.Lower Merion has the 5th highest per capita income in the usa population over 50,000.This area supports a dozen colleges and institutions of higher learning and arguably 4 of the top 10 high schools in Pa.LM,Harriton,Radnor,Tredyffrin-Easttown.


Moorestown Township, New Jersey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Radnor Township, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lower Merion Township, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.prufoxroach.com/pdfs/pres...Burlington.pdf

http://www.prufoxroach.com/pdfs/pres...A-Delaware.pdf

http://www.prufoxroach.com/pdfs/pres...Montgomery.pdf


Median figures based on data from year 2000

Moorestown NJ

Population- 19,000
Median Family income-$94,000
Median home value- $492,000 (2006)

The 2 largest areas of the Main Line are Lower merion + Radnor although there are many other smaller wealthy towns as well,(Chesterbrook,Newtown,Willistown,Tredyffrin Township,West whiteland,Great Valley etc etc) we'll stick with LM and Radnor for arguments sake.

Radnor PA

Population- 31,000
Median Household Income- $108,000
Median home value-(2006) $555,000


Lower Merion

Population -60,000
Median Household Income-$116,000
Median Home Value- $540,000

Just between Radnor and LM it has 5x the population of Moorestown and the economic data morphs that of Moorestown. Then when you add in the surrounding area of the Main Line. Places like Whitemarsh,Chestnut Hill,East Goshen,Upper Providence,Edgmont,Charlestown Township,Chester Springs,East Brandywine ,Westtown,Birmingham Township, it begins to become a problem for you disparaging it.

[MoorestownResident]

1. Household income in Moorestown is considerably higher than 94K. Money has it at 118K, real estimates are closer to 150K. Moorestown has several large retirement communities, so you are not comparing apples to apples.

2. Housing values are a function of what is selling, not how much it costs. The current average list price in Moorestown is 800K, but the sale price is lower since only the low end of the market is selling. But as noted 4,000 times, Moorestown has a large mix of housing, including affordable housing, unlike towns in PA.

3. The high end of the market determines how expensive a town is. Below are three examples of what you get for the money, Moorestown, Radnor and Lower Merion.


Housing in Gladwyne, probably the most prestigious of the Main Line towns:

1. $7 million, new construction, 15,000 square feet on 2.5 acres, 7 bedroom, 8 full baths

Prudential Fox and Roach - Home Search / Property Profile

2. $2.99 million, Radnor, PA, 6 bedroom, 6 baths, 1 acre, new construction, stone

401 Huston Rd, Radnor, PA, 19087 - MLS ID#5407281 - Single Family Home Real Estate - REALTOR.com®

By comparison, $6.5 million in Moorestown gets you 11,000 square feet, 5 bedrooms, 6 baths on 3.5 acres.

Prudential Fox and Roach - Home Search / Property Profile

Here's a direct comparable to #2 in Radnor, at $3.8 million - except it is 21 years old - $3.8 million, 6 bed, 6 baths, 21 years old, plus it sits off a main road.

http://www.prufoxroach.com/search/se...isplaycount=20

So a buyer looking at property #1 in Moorestown can go over to Gladwyne and get 4,000 additional square feet for basically the same money for two directly comparable properties, buyer looking at property #2 is going to get newer construction in Radnor in move in condition with a more private location. And taxes in Moorestown are going to be higher.

Why?

Well, it's pretty simple. Location to major money center hubs in the NE Corridor:

Princeton, NJ

Moorestown, 35 miles, easy commute, straight up 295
Galdwyne, 51 miles, very difficult commute
Radnor, 52 miles, very difficult commute

Short Hills, Summit, NJ:

Moorestown, 82 miles, hour and 25 minutes, I did it everyday
Gadwyne, 104 miles, 2 hours, can't be done
Radnor, PA, 104 miles, 2 hours, can't be done

Commute to New York City

Moorestown, 84 miles, total commute 1 hour, 35 minutes direct from Hamilton, NJ Train Station, people do it everyday
Gladwyne, 105 miles, well over 2 hours, not likely, weekend trips
Radnor, 105 miles, well over 2 hours, not likely, weekend trips

Long beach island, NJ

Moorestown, 51 miles
Gladwyne, 101 miles
Radnor, 107 miles

Location, location, location

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

Unfortunately, places like the Poconos have not dealt well with the growth, it is basically a slum, and many areas of the Lehigh Valley are headed in that direction.

As a resident of the Scranton/Pocono area, I can agree that we have not "dealt well with the growth" in that unchecked urban sprawl has whacked us upside the head worse than most other parts of the state in recent years. The "angels" moving here from NJ and NYC are demanding bigger schools, wider roads, more big-box stores, gated communities, etc., and then they WHINE when their property taxes increase. These transplants want their cake, and they want to eat it too!

With all due respect though, NEPA is a "slum?" We're one of the most popular sub-forums on City-Data for a reason with our many dozens of regular members and REGULAR relocation inquiries from mostly excited people from all over the nation. EVERY area has its "not-so-nice" areas, including many parts of The Stroudsburgs, a gated community near Tobyhanna, parts of Scranton, parts of Wilkes-Barre, a large chunk of Hazleton, and parts of Allentown and Easton in the more immediate Lehigh Valley area. Long Island also has its areas of "trash," judging by the surveillance images of that Wal-Mart stampede on Black Friday. Even your precious Garden State has many places that look like a deodorant-encrusted armpit.

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

1. Household income in Moorestown is considerably higher than 94K. Money has it at 118K, real estimates are closer to 150K.

You're using Money Magazine as a resource, the same one that listed Hackettstown, NJ high on its "Best Places" list a few years ago? Their credibility is SHOT, with all due respect.

[MoorestownResident]

There's passionate people in the NEPA area with close-knit communities. Easton, PA on over to Scranton has seen better days. The poconos have really declined in desirability and it was always considered very affordable. I suspect the same thing is happening to some other areas up that way. Don't kill the messenger, I'm just telling it as it is.

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

Don't kill the messenger, I'm just telling it as it is.

Ahh, this line again. The gospel according to MoorestownResident, omniscient one, and sayer of all things true.

[FromGA]

My purpose for starting this thread was the following:
I dont mind paying Income Taxes (as it would imply that I am actually earning money)
I think high property taxes can be a burden (coz you have to pay it whether you are actually making any money, etc.)

Can I infer that the property tax burden would be significantly lower on the PA side?
Also it looks like the income tax burden would also be significantly lower on the PA side?

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by FromGA

My purpose for starting this thread was the following:
I dont mind paying Income Taxes (as it would imply that I am actually earning money)
I think high property taxes can be a burden (coz you have to pay it whether you are actually making any money, etc.)

Can I infer that the property tax burden would be significantly lower on the PA side?
Also it looks like the income tax burden would also be significantly lower on the PA side?

The property taxes will very likely be lower on the PA side. The state income taxes will always be lower on the PA side, once your income is above $40k or so. Just remember that NJ gives you a credit for any Philadelphia wage tax paid. PA does not. Also, many localities in PA have local earned incomes taxes of 1%. If you pay the Philadelphia wage tax, you can use the wage tax as a credit against your local 1% tax.

Here's a brief summary:

NJ's taxes are higher, but centralized.
PA's taxes are lower, but fragmented and administered by (too) many authorities.

[MoorestownResident]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

Ahh, this line again. The gospel according to MoorestownResident, omniscient one, and sayer of all things true.

It is what it is, don't kill the messenger.

Happy Holidays to all my PA neighbors!