Philly vs NYC (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, York: neighborhoods, school, gated)

[a little edgy]

First of all, I've lived in all three cities, and each has its merits. My years in NYC were like my years in college - a great time, a fantastic education, and an experience I wouldn't trade for anything. On the other hand, I don't want to do it all again. However, any young person who has a chance to spend a few years there should do so if he can. That said, life in NYC is challenging. It's VERY VERY expensive - not just housing but food and transportation (car or cabs) as well. The public transit system is great, though. The so-called rudeness of New Yorkers is exaggerated, but it's true that they don't suffer fools gladly. Also, the nightlife tends to be quite trendy as well as expensive. If you can afford to dress the part and you're hip enough, great. If not, you might find yourself standing alone a lot of the time.

DC is my hometown, and it has many things to recommend it. Others have mentioned the job market, which is likely to remain strong throughout any recession (especially in a Democratic administration). Bear in mind, though, that many people from other parts of the country find DC to be a rather cold, snobbish city. The average level of education and income is very high, and the population - at least among white-collar professionals - is very smart. It's also a small-c conservative (that is, not arty or trendy) city. If you're somewhat traditional and preppy in style, and if you're smart, well-educated and well-informed, you'll fit right in and probably love it. Otherwise, you might not find your niche.

I live in the Philly area now, and ... well, let's just say it's been an adjustment. Phillyzoo's comments are a little bit harsh, but they do touch on some valid points. First of all, Philly is cheaper than NY and DC; your money will go much further here. In part that's because Philly is not as rich. Besides all the "bad" neighborhoods, Phila has a huge blue-collar, working-class population that's quite visible. In NY, such neighborhoods are hidden out in the boroughs where you would probably never go. That population doesn't exist in ultra-white-collar DC and never has. This lends a very different quality to the city which you'll either like or you won't.

Another thing: There has been much less immigration into Philadelphia than into NY or DC. That's just another way in which the city is more parochial and less diverse and worldly than the other two. Again, some people like that, some don't. One thing's for sure, though: as Phillyzoo says, it really affects the diversity of food. Philadelphia has a great restaurant scene, but those are high-priced places. The corner carry-out where you can grab a quick bite on the way home will almost certainly be pizza, cheesteak/hoagie, or chinese - a far cry from the many exotic cuisines available all over NY and in most DC suburban shopping centers.

Speaking of the suburbs - DC has some very nice ones that are quite diverse and yet more affordable than the fancy neighborhoods in the city itself. I'm talking about places like Silver Spring or Arlington. Because the Metro goes well out into the 'burbs, you can still be very connected to city life; and, even better, you could keep your car, which is something you really want to do in DC or even in Philly. In both places, there's just too much that's out of reach of public transit.

One final comment: You worry me a little bit with the money you're talking about. Unless you have parents at home able to subsidize you and help you out, $2000 is not enough money to move to any of these cities cold, with no job. The security and first month's rent on your apartment would eat that sum at one go. So ... think, plan and save carefully.

If it were me, I'd move to a close-in DC suburb ... but that's me.

[phillyzoo]

I suggest spending some time in all the places you are considering. They all offer distinctly different flavors. The non-profit and govt. sector are bustling in DC. I have worked for in government and non-profit in NY and Philly. As a result, I have been in nearly every corner of each city. In my experience, the poverty in Philadelphia is more prevalent and more visible. It is also extremely difficult to get anything done in Philly govt. vs. NY. Both of them present challenges but it should not be this difficult in Philly.

As for the non profits, the Philly non profits that I have worked with (at least 40+ either as an employee, funder, or consultant in both NY and Philly) have higher operating costs and have less outcomes. The monitoring systems in Philly are light years behind those of NY and it allows Philly NPO's to act in a corrupt manner. I.e., there is scarce fiscal accountability. Ultimately, the ones that suffer the most are the citizens that are supposed to receive services from allocated funds. In this sense, NY is far more progressive and they have tangibles to show for it.

Does some of this happen in NY? Hell yeah! But again, in my experience, it is much more rampant in Philly -and NY is how much bigger than Philly?

If this shows a love affair for me and NY, then so be it. I speak from experience. I probably do have plenty of sour grapes towards this city but if you have seen what I have seen you certainly would to.

Again, take some time and explore all of the places and see what you like best. Don't go by what you see on TV- that's all fluff.

Good Luck!

[LLOJ]

Originally Posted by NewGrad2009

IDK, I heard really bad things about Jersey. Like how no one likes living there. Maybe that's just a rumor started by some NYC elitists haha but idk.

New Jersey is nice, but stay away from Camden and Newark.

Originally Posted by ajaxrasputin

2. Philadelphia - second largest city (on east coast), sophisticated while retaining it's blue collar roots, good transit, great unique neighborhoods

Lol! Are we talking the same Philadelphia? You sound like one of those guys that live in the suburbs and would never go to most parts of Philly but still claim that it's the greatest city. To the OP, if you want to get a REAL sense of most of Philly for yourself, go on Google Map's Street View, and look at the street views on the streets near North Broad. That's basically most of Philly for you (even if you live in Chestnut Hill or NE Philly, you still have to pass through those areas to get to the Center City).

Originally Posted by phillyzoo

Native Philadelphians are the most insecure group I have ever met.

You couldn't have been more right, a lot of ignorant Native Philadelphians from my experience will pick a fight with you just because they thought that you looked at them the wrong way.

[LLOJ]

Lol, nice artwork. However, if you're trying to be a smart alleck and mock me, I have no intentions on slaying ANYBODY in the future, and I don't recall stating such in the past.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by a little edgy

First of all, I've lived in all three cities, and each has its merits. My years in NYC were like my years in college - a great time, a fantastic education, and an experience I wouldn't trade for anything. On the other hand, I don't want to do it all again. However, any young person who has a chance to spend a few years there should do so if he can. That said, life in NYC is challenging. It's VERY VERY expensive - not just housing but food and transportation (car or cabs) as well. The public transit system is great, though. The so-called rudeness of New Yorkers is exaggerated, but it's true that they don't suffer fools gladly. Also, the nightlife tends to be quite trendy as well as expensive. If you can afford to dress the part and you're hip enough, great. If not, you might find yourself standing alone a lot of the time.

DC is my hometown, and it has many things to recommend it. Others have mentioned the job market, which is likely to remain strong throughout any recession (especially in a Democratic administration). Bear in mind, though, that many people from other parts of the country find DC to be a rather cold, snobbish city. The average level of education and income is very high, and the population - at least among white-collar professionals - is very smart. It's also a small-c conservative (that is, not arty or trendy) city. If you're somewhat traditional and preppy in style, and if you're smart, well-educated and well-informed, you'll fit right in and probably love it. Otherwise, you might not find your niche.

I live in the Philly area now, and ... well, let's just say it's been an adjustment. Phillyzoo's comments are a little bit harsh, but they do touch on some valid points. First of all, Philly is cheaper than NY and DC; your money will go much further here. In part that's because Philly is not as rich. Besides all the "bad" neighborhoods, Phila has a huge blue-collar, working-class population that's quite visible. In NY, such neighborhoods are hidden out in the boroughs where you would probably never go. That population doesn't exist in ultra-white-collar DC and never has. This lends a very different quality to the city which you'll either like or you won't.

Another thing: There has been much less immigration into Philadelphia than into NY or DC. That's just another way in which the city is more parochial and less diverse and worldly than the other two. Again, some people like that, some don't. One thing's for sure, though: as Phillyzoo says, it really affects the diversity of food. Philadelphia has a great restaurant scene, but those are high-priced places. The corner carry-out where you can grab a quick bite on the way home will almost certainly be pizza, cheesteak/hoagie, or chinese - a far cry from the many exotic cuisines available all over NY and in most DC suburban shopping centers.

Speaking of the suburbs - DC has some very nice ones that are quite diverse and yet more affordable than the fancy neighborhoods in the city itself. I'm talking about places like Silver Spring or Arlington. Because the Metro goes well out into the 'burbs, you can still be very connected to city life; and, even better, you could keep your car, which is something you really want to do in DC or even in Philly. In both places, there's just too much that's out of reach of public transit.

One final comment: You worry me a little bit with the money you're talking about. Unless you have parents at home able to subsidize you and help you out, $2000 is not enough money to move to any of these cities cold, with no job. The security and first month's rent on your apartment would eat that sum at one go. So ... think, plan and save carefully.

If it were me, I'd move to a close-in DC suburb ... but that's me.

What a great post about Philly. Philly doesn't feel like a "world class" city to me in any way.

[kyle19125]

Why won't this thread die?

Philly will never be NYC, or even close. They shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.

The same goes with Chicago, Boston or DC. Baltimore would be a fair comparable, as would Cleveland.
Philadelphia is non-progressive and is so mired in inefficiency/disorganization it'll be years before any reputable city government can even begin to improve anything.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by kyle19125

Why won't this thread die?

Philly will never be NYC, or even close. They shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.

The same goes with Chicago, Boston or DC. Baltimore would be a fair comparable, as would Cleveland.
Philadelphia is non-progressive and is so mired in inefficiency/disorganization it'll be years before any reputable city government can even begin to improve anything.

It had to take issue with this statement. Inefficient/Disorganized city government is DEFINITELY not exclusive to Philadelphia. No city government is even near perfect, and with the vast majority of city governments having to brace for huge budget shortfalls in the near future, I don't find it to be fair game to put those other aforementioned cities on some pedestal of good governance.

Also, it most definitely would be a fair comparison to put Philly up against Boston, Chicago, or DC. In fact, I'd live in Philly over any of them. I don't have much experience with Chicago, but I've lived in DC before and visited Boston plenty of times. There are obviously different allures to each city, but I simply don't understand where this nonsense comes from that Philly "can't compete" when it is over twice the size of at least two of those cities and certainly has as good -- if not better -- amenities. To say that Philly only compares to Baltimore or Cleveland is horribly off-base.

[phillyzoo]

Originally Posted by Duderino

It had to take issue with this statement. Inefficient/Disorganized city government is DEFINITELY not exclusive to Philadelphia. No city government is even near perfect, and with the vast majority of city governments having to brace for huge budget shortfalls in the near future, I don't find it to be fair game to put those other aforementioned cities on some pedestal of good governance.

Also, it most definitely would be a fair comparison to put Philly up against Boston, Chicago, or DC. In fact, I'd live in Philly over any of them. I don't have much experience with Chicago, but I've lived in DC before and visited Boston plenty of times. There are obviously different allures to each city, but I simply don't understand where this nonsense comes from that Philly "can't compete" when it is over twice the size of at least two of those cities and certainly has as good -- if not better -- amenities. To say that Philly only compares to Baltimore or Cleveland is horribly off-base.

On paper Philly might compete with the cities you mention but in real life- forget it. I'm not sure it is completely comparable to Cleveland as Cleveland is losing jobs and the city's infrastructure is crumbling while Philly's is steadily growing. Otherwise, I think Baltimore is the very best example. Philly and B-more are mirror images- IMO.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by phillyzoo

On paper Philly might compete with the cities you mention but in real life- forget it. I'm not sure it is completely comparable to Cleveland as Cleveland is losing jobs and the city's infrastructure is crumbling while Philly's is steadily growing. Otherwise, I think Baltimore is the very best example. Philly and B-more are mirror images- IMO.

No, I'm actually talking in real life here -- not hypothetical. Allow me to explain.

A lot of people have mentioned Boston and DC as being more "sophisticated" than Philly, due in no small to the lesser presence of the blue-collar class. Yet, I don't find that "sophisticated;" I find that classist. While Boston and Chicago are actually not too far off from Philadelphia in terms of metropolitan demographics, let's not forget what this "sophistication" (a code word for classism) engenders.

In particular, DC is one of the most segregated cities and metropolitan areas in terms of class and race in the country. I have NEVER seen as much income stratification in my life as when I lived here. It's a city that is increasingly reserved for the most powerful and the richest. Boston, while not nearly to the extent of DC, is falling in line with a similar trend. The middle-class is virtually non-existent. Frankly, any city that doesn't provide for a stable middle-class is hardly sophisticated but simply panders to a wealthy elite. I find that pretty backwards, akin to a period of aristocratic rule.

For all that decry the provincial, parochial blue-collar class in Philadelphia, at least they still have a place in the city. Philadelphia prides itself on its class diversity, which is evident throughout many of its neighborhoods. That's more than I can say about a lot of other more "sophisticated" cities.

I don't mean to be too tangential, but I think that is important when discussing "competition." So long as Philadelphia can accommodate people from all different classes and backgrounds, not only can it compete with these other cities -- it will win out.

[pittsteelerfan]

Originally Posted by Duderino

No, I'm actually talking in real life here -- not hypothetical. Allow me to explain.

A lot of people have mentioned Boston and DC as being more "sophisticated" than Philly, due in no small to the lesser presence of the blue-collar class. Yet, I don't find that "sophisticated;" I find that classist. While Boston and Chicago are actually not too far off from Philadelphia in terms of metropolitan demographics, let's not forget what this "sophistication" (a code word for classism) engenders.

In particular, DC is one of the most segregated cities and metropolitan areas in terms of class and race in the country. I have NEVER seen as much income stratification in my life as when I lived here. It's a city that is increasingly reserved for the most powerful and the richest. Boston, while not nearly to the extent of DC, is falling in line with a similar trend. The middle-class is virtually non-existent. Frankly, any city that doesn't provide for a stable middle-class is hardly sophisticated but simply panders to a wealthy elite. I find that pretty backwards, akin to a period of aristocratic rule.

For all that decry the provincial, parochial blue-collar class in Philadelphia, at least they still have a place in the city. Philadelphia prides itself on its class diversity, which is evident throughout many of its neighborhoods. That's more than I can say about a lot of other more "sophisticated" cities.

I don't mean to be too tangential, but I think that is important when discussing "competition." So long as Philadelphia can accommodate people from all different classes and backgrounds, not only can it compete with these other cities -- it will win out.

Philly really doesn't have any thing on Chicago. I've lived in both, it didn't take long for me to notice the big difference between the two. That's why I always say that Philly feels like a big version of Pittsburgh to me. People get all bent outta shape when I say that, it's just the way it felt to me. I've been all over this country, and I think my perspective is pretty accurate. Chicago has a 'world class' look and feel to it, unlike Philly.