How Similar are Philadelphia and Pittsburgh? (Lancaster, Harrisburg: median income, live in, manufacturing)

[ainulinale]

As a native of Pittsburgh who has studied American regions in depth, it is my opinion that Pittsburgh is most adequately described as: East Coast-Appalachia. Growing up in the city, we never considered ourselves the same as those in the Bos-Wash corridor, but certainly never thought of our city as Midwestern. Our self-image is that of a Northeastern city however, similar and yet distinct from the coast.

Pittsburgh architecture, design, layout, demographics, and even culture tend to demonstrate this dichotomy of both East Coast influence as well as Appalachian influence. In my opinion, Pittsburgh is like Philadelphia crossed with West Virginia.

Now, I've visited Philadelphia twice (I even have family there), in addition to smaller cities near the eastern part of the state (Harrisburg, York, Lancaster), and have invariably come to the conclusion that these areas of Pennsylvania have very strong similarities (especially in terms of architecture, style demographics and layout).

What do you think? Are there significant similarities between these two cities? Should Pittsburgh not be excluded from the "Northeast"? Give reasons for your position.

[waltlantz]

Depends, architecturally both have a lot of old style buildings.

Economically, I think both are best known for their Eds and Meds (although Philly may be stronger in this IMHO). Both do have histories as union driven manufacturing towns (Pitt moreso).

Both have considerable footprints (although some say Pitts is bigger).

Also both are CRAZY about their football teams

and suffer from maligned sterotypes.

[john_starks]

never been to pitt, so i can't comment. architecturally they're kinda similar

[phillyzoo]

I say if you put Philadelphia and Columbus, Ohio in a mixing bowl you come up with Pittsburgh.

Pitt in many ways feels like a midwestern city but still has a strong connection to its early immigrants, which is reminiscent of east coast cities. jmo

[rainrock]

The difference for me is 1. The wealth in the surrounding counties of the respective cities. 2. Location

Chester(PA),Montgomery(PA),Bucks(PA),Burlington(NJ ),Mercer(NJ),Gloucester(NJ) all have median incomes of $70,000 +.Not too far behind - Delaware(PA) ,Camden(NJ) and New Castle(DE) counties which round out the bottom of the Philadlephia metro would be at the top of the Pittsburgh metro regarding median household incomes.

Philadlephia is 1 hr from the beaches of South jersey.Pittsburgh is 8 hours to the the ocean, day trips to Cleveland + Wheeling as opposed to Manhattan and DC for Philly.

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by rainrock

Philadlephia is 1 hr from the beaches of South jersey.Pittsburgh is 8 hours to the the ocean, day trips to Cleveland + Wheeling as opposed to Manhattan and DC for Philly.

I'm not sure where you're getting this information. Pittsburgh is 4 hours to the Chesapeake Bay, and if you don't consider that the ocean, then we are 6.5 hours to Rehoboth Beach Delaware.

Additionally, I find it funny that according to my polls; 68% of Philadelphians reject Pittsburgh as being similar at all while 68% of New Yorkers reject Philadelphia as being similar at all. East Coast bias? Or does everyone have a superiority complex? Though I'm sure once I mention this everyone from Philly will go over to the New York forum and say how similar those two cities are, and screw up my poll.

[rainrock]

I dont think anyone from the Philadlephia area clamors for NYC's endorsement.

One of the biggest myths going is the one that has Philadlephia shriveling in the shadows of NYC. 20 minute ride west of Manhattan puts you in the middle of Jersey City- No thank you. 20 minutes west of Center City Philly puts you in Valley Forge National park,Ridley Creek State Park or The Main Line.

To be honest Philadelphians for the most part simply do not care about NYC.NYC'ers would have you believe everyone in the Philadlephia area (1-2 hr away) floods into NYC and worships at its altar, sorry it doesnt happen, NYC is irrelevant to the vast majority of Philadlephians.That doesnt take away from NYC being a great city and it certainly has its virtues, but the moniker "greatest city in the world" is essentially a self initiated one.

The inmigration of NYers to the Philadelphia area is much greater than the outmigration of Philadlephians to NYC. IN the area where I live every other license plate seemingly has NY,NJ,CT. state tags.

In a similar light if residents of Pittsburgh perceive Philadelphians to be a bit overbearing or pompous it doesnt really matter in the grand scheme of things. You can live just as well in the Pittsburgh area as you can in the Philadelphia area. There may be a few more options in Philly , perhaps a better chance for upward mobility but its no better than the Pittsburgh area.

Philadlephia is no better than Pittsburgh but it is dissimilar to Pitt which was the basis for the poll.

[CHIP72]

I have no idea why the similarity between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is such a big deal to you, but let me outline again how people who live in or are originally from or near Philadelphia perceive these 2 cities and New York (based on my impression from growing up relatively close to Philadelphia in eastern PA):

Philadelphia/Pittsburgh: Most people from the Philadelphia area don't think about Pittsburgh too much. They generally have a more positive than negative view of Pittsburgh, if they haven't lived in/near Pittsburgh or spent significant time there, because Pittsburgh is in the same state (unlike other big cities that are closer to Philadelphia). The primary reason Philadelphia area/eastern PA natives don't think about Pittsburgh is because from Philadelphia's point of view, Pittsburgh is very far away through the mountains and woods and there are other, bigger cities much closer that Philadelphia that are a lot easier to go to. Most Philly area natives do not consider Pittsburgh a rival city for the most part, primarily because of the distance factor and the fact Pittsburgh is much smaller. There are a few sports-related exceptions to this general rule at some times (baseball in the late 1970's, hockey the last couple of years), but even then if a closer city, especially New York, also has a good team in the same division, then that closer city's team or teams will usually be bigger rivals (as the Rangers and Devils have historically been much bigger rivals to the Flyers than the Penguins have been).

Philadelphia/New York: This is the city many Philadelphia area/eastern PA natives measure Philly against, at least when they are younger or newer to the area. They (understandably) do this because A) the cities are close, B) the cities are both very large, and C) in some cases they have relatives who live in the NYC area (or if the native lives outside the immediate Philadelphia area, they have relatives they live in both the Philly area and NYC area). Once these people get older and they spend some time in NYC, they realize these comparisons don't make as much sense because New York is so much bigger and is the primary city in the entire U.S. They do perceive Philly and New York as being more similar to one another than Philly and Pittsburgh because the former 2 cities are both on the East Coast and are much closer to one another.

New York/Philadelphia: In contrast to the above, based on my many visits to NYC and exposure to the New York media (and to a small degree having grown up less than 100 miles from New York), New Yorkers tend to not consider Philadelphia very similar to their city...but they really don't consider ANY U.S. city to be similar to their city. Many NYC area natives think why go to Philadelphia when New York has everything Philly has and much more? New York is a world city, Philadelphia really is not. They also get a (understandably) negative impression of Philadelphia if they ever ride the Amtrak NEC through North Philadelphia.

I won't go into the New York/Pittsburgh thoughts because I'm not the best person to address this comparison, but I suspect New York area natives almost never think about Pittsburgh (and definitely think about Pittsburgh much less than Philadelphia or the other, much closer, Northeast Corridor cities), except in a sports context, and consider Pittsburgh flyover country.

What all of the above really comes back to is the classic "big brother, little brother" relationship. A little brother (or smaller city) will compare and measure himself much more against his big brother than the big brother (or bigger city) will compare himself against his little brother. Stated another way, Pittsburgh is the little brother to Philadelphia, while Philadelphia is the little brother to New York. The primary difference in the two comparisons from a Philly point of view is that Pittsburgh is over 300 miles away while New York is less than 100 miles away.

P.S. For the record, I voted "somewhat similar" in this poll.

[JHG722]

Originally Posted by rainrock

The difference for me is 1. The wealth in the surrounding counties of the respective cities. 2. Location

Chester(PA),Montgomery(PA),Bucks(PA),Burlington(NJ ),Mercer(NJ),Gloucester(NJ) all have median incomes of $70,000 +.Not too far behind - Delaware(PA) ,Camden(NJ) and New Castle(DE) counties which round out the bottom of the Philadlephia metro would be at the top of the Pittsburgh metro regarding median household incomes.

That's actually not true. There's a TON of wealth in the Pittsburgh area:

Fox Chapel, Sewickley Heights, Edgeworth, Upper St. Clair, Peters Township, Marshall Township, etc.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by JHG722

That's actually not true. There's a TON of wealth in the Pittsburgh area:

Fox Chapel, Sewickley Heights, Edgeworth, Upper St. Clair, Peters Township, Marshall Township, etc.

Sorry I may not have worded that too well.I'm not saying Pittsburgh doesnt have wealth but what I am saying is that the Philadelphia area has more, alot more.



PA. Median household income average= $48,562


Going by counties within their respective metroes The highest median household income(2007) in metro Pittsburgh is Butler County($54,203).The highest in metro Philly is Chester County at ($83,000).Chester County has 10x as many people as Butler County.The lowest in metro Philadlephia is Camden County NJ($58,541).

Montgomery County which has 800,000 people is the 3rd or 4th wealthiest county in th eusa with a population over 750,000. Montgomery median income is $74,000 compared to Pittsburghs largest County- Allegheny County $46,402.