Delaware just passed Sports Betting + Table Games (Philadelphia, Chester: 2009, leasing)

[rainrock]

That thud you just heard? That was Donald Trump jumping out of the penthouse window of the Taj Majal. Unbelievable.

This is going to send shock waves thru AC. The Wilmington riverfront is going to reap a couple of national casino developers. I can see a MGM + Harrah types setting up shop with billion dollar operations on the riverfront.

Good for Delaware and has to be a boost to the overall region.

I have 2 dimes on the next team that faces Jamie Moyer.

Senate OKs sports bets, table games | delawareonline | The News Journal

[BPP1999]

Next up, we need an approval on table games in PA so we can compete with Delaware.

I can hear the anti-gambling crusaders screaming now.

[MoorestownResident]

It's pathetic. Gambling is a farce and a joke. States and municipalities that use it as a source of growth should be exported to South America.

MGM is a bankrupt company, they will be setting up shop in bankruptcy court.

Lastly, casino effects on local economies vary. A casino is a cash cow that hoards money from the local populous which does not make its way back into local circulation. It goes to investors and management living elsewhere. The short term benefit of hiring local workers and property tax payments help to offset but there is no net-net unless the location is so desirable (Vegas) that the hospitality industry spurs local economic growth. Note that this has not happened in AC, the town itself is basically a dump despite Trump's deep pockets.

A casino in DE or PA will have no desirability beyond DE or PA so the socio-economic benefits will be primarily negative with more cash leaving the region than coming in resulting in negative economic profit. Some property tax relief, if it takes place, (or if incentives delay them for 10 years) and maybe some apprecation of commercial property in close proximity do not out-weigh the negative ecomomic profit and negative public perception.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

Next up, we need an approval on table games in PA so we can compete with Delaware.

I can hear the anti-gambling crusaders screaming now.

Yes. This news out of Delaware will change gambling throughout the East Coast.

Pa. at least in this part of the state absolutely has to add table games to stay remotely competitive with DE. and A.C..

[lititzman2003]

I understand that most of the governor's in this country are trying to use the casino's as a quick fix to make up for the lack of revenue from the loss of the manufacturing jobs but, in the long term, casino's are not the answer. As others have stated, the profits usually don't spread out to the surrounding community. I don't know all the details but who sold the casino idea to the residents of Chester? Were they convinced that the gamblers would venture out into their neighborhood and make purchases from the deli's, dress shops, etc? Money spent in the local stores were suppose to be the trade off for increased traffic, noise, pollution and lack of parking spaces? Sorry, but I wonder how many people will leave the security of the casino to shop in the city that the casino's are located.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

MGM is a bankrupt company, they will be setting up shop in bankruptcy court.

MGM like most everyone else didnt see the economic collapse coming, they
got greedy and overextended themselves with the $9 B dollar City Center resort. That being said Id be surprised if they go into bankruptcy. Its a Fortune 500 Company with $8 B dollars a year in revenue and $30 B in assets.

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

A casino is a cash cow that hoards money from the local populous which does not make its way back into local circulation.It goes to investors and management living elsewhere.

The state of Pennsyvania has received $613 M dollars from slots revenue
in 2008 which will be used to lower property taxes. The average PA resident will see their property taxes lowered $200. De will tax gaming revenues 47% for similar purposes. There is actually a method to the madness, this isnt Vegas where casino and developers are eating up 80% of the pie.

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

Note that this has not happened in AC, the town itself is basically a dump despite Trump's deep pockets.

AC is light years ahead of where it was 30 years ago. Its relatively
isolated location and poor business sense will always hold it back. Wilmington + Philadephia have advantages that AC cant take advantage of, its wrong of you to say becasue City X has not taken advantage of gambling that CITY Y + Z will also fail.

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

A casino in DE or PA will have no desirability beyond DE or PA so the socio-economic benefits will be primarily negative with more cash leaving the region than coming in resulting in negative economic profit.

Philadelphia gets 30 M tourists per year. Add in the fact that the ravenous NYC gambling market is closer to Philly than Atlantic City and it opens up all kinds of potential? I dont see how you can say a casino in Philadelphia would be only be locally desired or supported. You arent giving Philadephia enough credit and you are underestimating what sports betting could do for DE given its enviable location between 2 of the biggest metroes in the country Philly+ DC/Bal

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

do not out-weigh the negative ecomomic profit and negative public perception.

How do you know that? Foxwoods + Sugarhouse were both originally slated to be $2 B dollar investments. Philadelphia bungled that possibility but do you know how many construction,gaming,customer service jobs would have been created if Philadelphia didnt botch their oppurtunity? Not to mention the ancillary businesses that would have eventually blossomed? LAs Vegas creates $6 B a year in Gambling revenue per year but they receive $36 B dollars of spending per year on non gambling related activities e.g.,restaurants,shows,shopping.

[BPP1999]

I agree that gambling does not create many good jobs. Also, it may suck money that would otherwise be spent on other entertainment activities. But regarding the billions and billions of PA $ that gets spent in other states (NJ, DE, NJ) on casino games, hotels, shows, restaurants, etc. - I agree with Rendell - you can hear a sucking sound on the bridges each Friday (the sound of PA residents flocking to AC).

I agree with what DE did, and I think PA needs to expand gambling to include table games. PA will never have the beach that AC has, so casinos in PA will never really be considered "resorts," but lets keep that $ here.

I agree with setting aside $ to help those with gambling addictions, and people with such problems need to be helped and educated, but I don't accept the chicken little mentality that the religious right and other anti-gambling crusaders have regarding gambling.

[lititzman2003]

I agree that Rendall needs to have a "can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach with the casino's but I hope he and the other governor's in this country don't lose focus on creating long-term manufacturing and service jobs. I also fear people reaching the satuation point with casino's, with now more casino's opening in three neighboring states. I wonder how feasible it would be to take some of that casino revenue and apply it to tax breaks for large companies that operate within the Commonwealth and no where else . We just can't continue to stand by and watch good jobs migrate to Mexico and beyond.

To be clear, I do like casino's and agree that they do have a place in our economy. Rather a casino then a vacant lot or a Walmart!

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by lititzman2003

I agree that Rendall needs to have a "can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach with the casino's but I hope he and the other governor's in this country don't lose focus on creating long-term manufacturing and service jobs. also fear people reaching the satuation point with casino's, with now more casino's opening in three neighboring states. I wonder how feasible it would be to take some of that casino revenue and apply it to tax breaks for large companies that operate within the Commonwealth and no where else . We just can't continue to stand by and watch good jobs migrate to Mexico and beyond.

To be clear, I do like casino's and agree that they do have a place in our economy. Rather a casino then a vacant lot or a Walmart!

I tend to agree, but this is far from a clear cut issue for many reasons.

First and foremost, I think these gambling establishments have to be built more responsibly, especially in terms of location. Local and state leadership needs to be much more receptive to how it is proposed -- specifically in an urban setting. (This may be a little bit of a digression, but putting big-box slot houses on the Philadelphia riverfront would be an atrocity, and I can only hope that SugarHouse continues to get stymied by protests).

I also am not extremely fond of the Foxwoods proposal to put a casino in the old Strawbridge's building downtown -- just a few blocks from Independence Mall -- but at least it would be not as big of a scale and on the second floor above supposedly upscale retail and would use an existing, abandoned, and integrated structure. I also sympathize with Mayor Nutter because I believe his hands were tied by the state in terms of being forced to approve some sort of casino in the city; it's a frustrating situation all around.

I suppose I take the view that slots are necessary for PA to remain competitive on the revenue-collecting front, but allowing these "slot barns" to be built with unfettered approval is not, in my opinion, something that is in the long-term best interest of the state. It may look good on paper, but gambling is an incredibly risky industry (everyone could learn a lesson from Las Vegas). Especially on the job front, attracting manufacturing or service-sector positions should hardly be a priority. Instead REAL high-paying, white-collar jobs will offer FAR more stability and economic benefits for the region overall.

[MoorestownResident]

Originally Posted by rainrock

MGM like most everyone else didnt see the economic collapse coming, they
got greedy and overextended themselves with the $9 B dollar City Center resort. That being said Id be surprised if they go into bankruptcy. Its a Fortune 500 Company with $8 B dollars a year in revenue and $30 B in assets.




The state of Pennsyvania has received $613 M dollars from slots revenue
in 2008 which will be used to lower property taxes. The average PA resident will see their property taxes lowered $200. De will tax gaming revenues 47% for similar purposes. There is actually a method to the madness, this isnt Vegas where casino and developers are eating up 80% of the pie.




AC is light years ahead of where it was 30 years ago. Its relatively
isolated location and poor business sense will always hold it back. Wilmington + Philadephia have advantages that AC cant take advantage of, its wrong of you to say becasue City X has not taken advantage of gambling that CITY Y + Z will also fail.



Philadelphia gets 30 M tourists per year. Add in the fact that the ravenous NYC gambling market is closer to Philly than Atlantic City and it opens up all kinds of potential? I dont see how you can say a casino in Philadelphia would be only be locally desired or supported. You arent giving Philadephia enough credit and you are underestimating what sports betting could do for DE given its enviable location between 2 of the biggest metroes in the country Philly+ DC/Bal




How do you know that? Foxwoods + Sugarhouse were both originally slated to be $2 B dollar investments. Philadelphia bungled that possibility but do you know how many construction,gaming,customer service jobs would have been created if Philadelphia didnt botch their oppurtunity? Not to mention the ancillary businesses that would have eventually blossomed? LAs Vegas creates $6 B a year in Gambling revenue per year but they receive $36 B dollars of spending per year on non gambling related activities e.g.,restaurants,shows,shopping.

1. I know that by following the news. MGM's various propertys are filing for bankruptcy.

2. The average property tax reduction in PA from slot revenue is negligible. PA is trying, unsuccessfully, to sure up its budgets short of leasing the turnpike. The popular way to sell it is - property tax relief. It is a falsehood.

3. AC has not benefited materially from Trumps pockets or the casino industry. You can still buy a condo in close proximity for peanuts. It is not even close to being light years ahead. In fact, you can make the argument that AC's economic and income growth has declined relative to the rest of the south Jersey shoreline. Forbes has recently ranked AC one spot in front of Detroit for best places to do business.

4. In case you didn't see the news - the casinos in AC just opened non-stop luxury rail service from Manhattan. So much for NYC gamblers coming to Philly/DE.

A Luxury Train, Bound for Atlantic City - City Room Blog - NYTimes.com

5. I know that because studies have shown gambling to be a model of negative economic profit. Vegas cannot be compared to Philly/DE, let's get real. It is a market unto itself and the only profitable model that cannot be duplicated in the mid-atlantic. You take all the gambling losses from senior citizens and the rest of the local populous and it will trump the low wage employees that get hired and any ancillary business. Whatever tourists Philly gets annually, it will be headed to the liberty bell and Pat's steaks, not whatever slots are available. That's just a sophomoric philosophy.