Philadelphia Turnaround, how can we further it? (York, Oxford: real estate, crime rate)

[waltlantz]

I have heard from certain people that the city turned a corner scince the 1990s. Still from visiting my family there every year, I see that there needs to be much improvement.

People have made suggestions such as lowering the tax rate, lowering crime, etc. but does anyone have real detailed nuanced suggestions to really get the city to be somewhere people want to come to again?
(We do seem to be benefiting from New Yorkers getting priced out moving down here)

Take for example the many rotted out factories in North Philadelphia, what could take their place? Urban agriculuture? I heard Joe Biden was in town last month promoting the reuse of such factories to help build wind turbines and other equipment to help green the economy?

It surprises me how (like Boston) the city has excellent universities and hospitals and is an important cog in the NE corridor yet like Baltimore it isn't known for much nationwide (compared to the Beantown, im not touching DC or NYC).

Perhaps there needs to be more cooperation between the colleges and the government to help foster educational oppurtunities in the city?

[niceguy19125]

Originally Posted by waltlantz

People have made suggestions such as lowering the tax rate, lowering crime, etc.

Lowering the tax rate is wishful thinking at this juncture. The city screwed itself pretty hard by offering that 10 year Tax Abatement for new construction. Sure it brought new residents in, but effectively all they did was replace tax-paying residents who were moving out (more moving out than moving in as well) with new residents who are tax-free for 10 years. Simultaneously the same initiative worked for commercial/business tenants, who found a loophole from jumping into a new building from an existing one. Mix in the financial meltdown and the city's investments...and we're talking major financial shortfall.

The city needs to get really creative, and really aggressive to attract new businesses (and an increased tax-base) to the city. There are so many empty tracts of land and rundown/abandoned buildings in the city. Why can't the city exercise eminent domain on those unwilling to do anything with these pieces of property? Instead of offering zero taxes, offer free real estate.
Instead of sitting back and waiting for development opportunities, get aggressive and recruit them. Why can't the city become more of a high-tech hotbed? It has the infrastructure to become one with the right perks made available to potential new businesses. It will just take the desire to step away from business as usual, and look at things differently. I don't think the Nutter administration is able to as they appear to have blinders on, dealing with budget/finances/blahblah.

[phlydude]

The major difference between Boston and Philadelphia - URBAN TRANSPORTATION

The "T" in Boston runs 4 subway/surface lines spreading all out throughout the city AND suburbs...that is Philadelphia's downfall - we don't have anything but sporadic regional rail service to anywhere outside the city itself. The Market-Frankford "El" doesn't even run throughout the city...too many NIMBY complaints kept the line from being extended up Bustleton ave or Frankford Ave and you get stuck with one quasi East/West line and 1 North/South line both of which run through some rough neighborhoods.

This coupled with the availability of fairly cheap, abundant land with the ability to create highways to these locations has made the sprawl much worse than you see in Boston. Boston communities are water locked and there isn't much land available until you move 20 miles either North, West or South and even then, the communities that are there wouldn't stand in letting too many commercial complexes spring up.

That coupled with the tax abatement that these folks gave up (instead of lowering wage and business tax) during a time when the market was poised to build new construction anyway, regardless of the low to nil tax rate was just poor forward thinking.

In addition, the crime rate is way too high...we don't give our officers and firefighters the proper equipment to fight the crime and fires letting these disconnected areas seperate the nicer areas of the city. These same areas are where the universities are placed...sporatically through the city faling to capitialize on the resources that each provides. Go to Cambridge and see how MIT and Harvard play off of each other - the area is VERY safe and brings in non-students to check things out and utilize the businesses in the area.
Temple is a good school but walk two blocks off campus and you have a better chance than not of becoming a victim of a petty crime. Same with UP and Drexel...good schools, bad neighborhoods.

All these pockets are broken off and aside from Center City, are on the fringe of the city...between has become a place for dumping off the under schooled, under earning members of the society that find that snitchin' is being a traitor and it is easier to earn via a gun versus earning with the mind.

Its a shame because there are really nice areas, once the pride of many that have fallen victim to thug rules...

Those buildings in Northern Liberties / Fishtown / Kensington / North Philly that aren't being used need to be raised. CLEAN, affordable housing with STRICT qualifications (like Habitat for Humanity) should be built there. Nothing gives a person more pride than earning the right to own their home. Doing this would be a boost to the community, the econmony and hopefully will build more connection between the disconnected neighborhoods of the city.

We also need to build more rail projects...sure, the regional rail system works but it is confusing, it doesn't run all the time and honestly, is expensive. We need to go underground with our subways and build out to the suburbs...we need a line under Roosevelt Blvd all the way out to Neshaminy or even Oxford Valley, we need a line out to K.O.P. from Center City, we need a subway to the airport from town and SOUTHERN burbs - extend a subway line to Wilmington, DE and you eliminate 25-30% of the traffic on the highway...so many use Regional rail from Delaware and DelCO but if you miss your train just before 6 PM, you are screwed.

Take a look at how all these lines intersect in Boston - you can jump from one line to the other, all in the center of town but it reaches so many people. http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/subway/

We should also look to add water shuttle service on the river - we have a great resource with the river and a repressed area across there in Camden...adding shuttles from Camden to Philly (side from the concert shuttles) and from areas south and north can help eliminate traffic across the bridges and the interstates. A shuttle that hits in the Tacony area to Pensauken to Center City to Camden to Center City to Glouscester City (and maybe the Navy Yard) can be fairly quick and can hold a lot of people...think of it like the ferries in NYC - people leave their cars in their state and capitalize on public transit to get around the city. Heck, even water service to the airport would be nice from the north and the south...just have to find a transport mechanism to get the passengers into the terminals.

[pman]

lower business taxes

[JHG722]

Originally Posted by phlydude

The major difference between Boston and Philadelphia - URBAN TRANSPORTATION

The "T" in Boston runs 4 subway/surface lines spreading all out throughout the city AND suburbs...that is Philadelphia's downfall - we don't have anything but sporadic regional rail service to anywhere outside the city itself. The Market-Frankford "El" doesn't even run throughout the city...too many NIMBY complaints kept the line from being extended up Bustleton ave or Frankford Ave and you get stuck with one quasi East/West line and 1 North/South line both of which run through some rough neighborhoods.

This coupled with the availability of fairly cheap, abundant land with the ability to create highways to these locations has made the sprawl much worse than you see in Boston. Boston communities are water locked and there isn't much land available until you move 20 miles either North, West or South and even then, the communities that are there wouldn't stand in letting too many commercial complexes spring up.

That coupled with the tax abatement that these folks gave up (instead of lowering wage and business tax) during a time when the market was poised to build new construction anyway, regardless of the low to nil tax rate was just poor forward thinking.

In addition, the crime rate is way too high...we don't give our officers and firefighters the proper equipment to fight the crime and fires letting these disconnected areas seperate the nicer areas of the city. These same areas are where the universities are placed...sporatically through the city faling to capitialize on the resources that each provides. Go to Cambridge and see how MIT and Harvard play off of each other - the area is VERY safe and brings in non-students to check things out and utilize the businesses in the area.
Temple is a good school but walk two blocks off campus and you have a better chance than not of becoming a victim of a petty crime. Same with UP and Drexel...good schools, bad neighborhoods.

All these pockets are broken off and aside from Center City, are on the fringe of the city...between has become a place for dumping off the under schooled, under earning members of the society that find that snitchin' is being a traitor and it is easier to earn via a gun versus earning with the mind.

Its a shame because there are really nice areas, once the pride of many that have fallen victim to thug rules...

Those buildings in Northern Liberties / Fishtown / Kensington / North Philly that aren't being used need to be raised. CLEAN, affordable housing with STRICT qualifications (like Habitat for Humanity) should be built there. Nothing gives a person more pride than earning the right to own their home. Doing this would be a boost to the community, the econmony and hopefully will build more connection between the disconnected neighborhoods of the city.

We also need to build more rail projects...sure, the regional rail system works but it is confusing, it doesn't run all the time and honestly, is expensive. We need to go underground with our subways and build out to the suburbs...we need a line under Roosevelt Blvd all the way out to Neshaminy or even Oxford Valley, we need a line out to K.O.P. from Center City, we need a subway to the airport from town and SOUTHERN burbs - extend a subway line to Wilmington, DE and you eliminate 25-30% of the traffic on the highway...so many use Regional rail from Delaware and DelCO but if you miss your train just before 6 PM, you are screwed.

Take a look at how all these lines intersect in Boston - you can jump from one line to the other, all in the center of town but it reaches so many people. MBTA Subway 'The 'T' > Maps, Schedules, and Fare Information for the Boston Area Subway System

We should also look to add water shuttle service on the river - we have a great resource with the river and a repressed area across there in Camden...adding shuttles from Camden to Philly (side from the concert shuttles) and from areas south and north can help eliminate traffic across the bridges and the interstates. A shuttle that hits in the Tacony area to Pensauken to Center City to Camden to Center City to Glouscester City (and maybe the Navy Yard) can be fairly quick and can hold a lot of people...think of it like the ferries in NYC - people leave their cars in their state and capitalize on public transit to get around the city. Heck, even water service to the airport would be nice from the north and the south...just have to find a transport mechanism to get the passengers into the terminals.

Please dont call anything in Philly sprawl, because it's really nothing close to sprawl.

As far as your safety concerns, my friend was pistol whipped on Commonwealth Ave in Boston so it can happen anywhere, safe or not.

[MoorestownResident]

Nothing positive will happen in Philly unless they fix the city public schools. You've got a very large populous in Philly making $25K or living off the government. That's a recipe for welfare and crime, not growth or prestige.

[john_starks]

Originally Posted by pman

lower business taxes

that's a start. we need to start luring businesses away from the suburbs.

and change the old boy mentality "if it aint broke, don't fix it" way of running govt.

btw, is fumo in prison yet?

[phlydude]

Originally Posted by JHG722

Please dont call anything in Philly sprawl, because it's really nothing close to sprawl.

As far as your safety concerns, my friend was pistol whipped on Commonwealth Ave in Boston so it can happen anywhere, safe or not.

there was sprawl and there continues to be sprawl...the outlying burbs are filled with it...the city is the city and it won't grow but the burbs will continue once the economy recovers

Commonwealth Ave is a big street...and yes, it can happen anywhere - I will tell you that I'd feel a hell of a lot safer walking around Boston on Commonwealth Ave from the common even down to B.U. compared to Broad and Lehigh for Temple.

I lived in Philly for 24 years - I only had 1 incident where I was physically assaulted - I've had people harass me for my starter jacket back in the day but a little rebuff back in the face of the harasser usually had them backing off.

[pman]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

Nothing positive will happen in Philly unless they fix the city public schools. You've got a very large populous in Philly making $25K or living off the government. That's a recipe for welfare and crime, not growth or prestige.

umm, lots of positive things have already happened...of course, the public school shave gotten better. there's no silver bullet since criem ened sto go down, schools need to improve, and people needs jobs ot make more money. the city needs a multi-pronged approach that increases the tax base (it's already done this a bit but mostly on the residential not the commercial side), continues the improvements the schools have made, and continuing to support the police dept while fixing the judicial system. teh city doesn't so much need to lure companies out of the burbs as stop chasing them out of the city.

[JHG722]

Originally Posted by phlydude

there was sprawl and there continues to be sprawl...the outlying burbs are filled with it...the city is the city and it won't grow but the burbs will continue once the economy recovers

Commonwealth Ave is a big street...and yes, it can happen anywhere - I will tell you that I'd feel a hell of a lot safer walking around Boston on Commonwealth Ave from the common even down to B.U. compared to Broad and Lehigh for Temple.

I lived in Philly for 24 years - I only had 1 incident where I was physically assaulted - I've had people harass me for my starter jacket back in the day but a little rebuff back in the face of the harasser usually had them backing off.

Filled? There is sprawl, but it's absolutely NOTHING compared to the south and the southwest. That's such a completely ridiculous statement and a completely unfounded complaint.

And for the safety BS, I'm a former BU student and current Temple student--I dont feel any more scared at Temple. My point was that crime occurs everywhere. Dont think just because Boston seems more cosmopolitan that you're free from crime.

And stop with the Boston comparisons.