Traffic in the Philly area vs Northern NJ? (Philadelphia, Scranton: real estate, insurance)

[marchawg]

I am looking at possibly relocating to the Philadelphia area, but I'm worried that traffic will be as bad as it was in Northern NJ. I lived in Hackensack, and because of the blue laws, EVERYONE was out on Saturday. It could take up to 30 minutes to travel 2 miles.

It was great having everything so close by, but the traffic made it as if you were 30 miles away.

We haven't narrowed down the towns we are looking at yet, but I have family in Downingtown and Exton, so we will probably start out in West Chester and move East and North from there.

As a side note, I work from home for a company in NYC, but I go in once every few weeks. I'm not really fond of the NYC metro (TRAFFIC!!! and too expensive), so I'm just checking out different areas while I can.

[niceguy19125]

Originally Posted by marchawg

I am looking at possibly relocating to the Philadelphia area, but I'm worried that traffic will be as bad as it was in Northern NJ. I lived in Hackensack, and because of the blue laws, EVERYONE was out on Saturday. It could take up to 30 minutes to travel 2 miles.

It was great having everything so close by, but the traffic made it as if you were 30 miles away.

We haven't narrowed down the towns we are looking at yet, but I have family in Downingtown and Exton, so we will probably start out in West Chester and move East and North from there.

As a side note, I work from home for a company in NYC, but I go in once every few weeks. I'm not really fond of the NYC metro (TRAFFIC!!! and too expensive), so I'm just checking out different areas while I can.

Traffic as far as out as West Chester/Downingtown/Exton won't be anything as bad as you experienced in North Jersey. It's no where near as developed that far out. Are you planning to drive to NYC? There is excellent train service between Philly and NYC. Amtrak's regular service takes a bit over an hour. You can drive to Trenton or Hamilton, NJ, park your car there and take NJ Transit which takes about an hour and a half or so. Or drive the entire way and want to kill yourself.

[MoorestownResident]

Originally Posted by marchawg

I am looking at possibly relocating to the Philadelphia area, but I'm worried that traffic will be as bad as it was in Northern NJ. I lived in Hackensack, and because of the blue laws, EVERYONE was out on Saturday. It could take up to 30 minutes to travel 2 miles.

It was great having everything so close by, but the traffic made it as if you were 30 miles away.

We haven't narrowed down the towns we are looking at yet, but I have family in Downingtown and Exton, so we will probably start out in West Chester and move East and North from there.

As a side note, I work from home for a company in NYC, but I go in once every few weeks. I'm not really fond of the NYC metro (TRAFFIC!!! and too expensive), so I'm just checking out different areas while I can.

I was in Hackensack on Tuesday. It only took me 90 minutes to get home to Moorestown during rush hour. IMO traffic in North Jersey is not as bad as it used to be. Even 80 is better that it was 10-15 years ago. Though the unemployment rate could have a lot to do with it at the moment but I suspect some improvement due to relocations, construction and flex time. Anyway, about the only part of Philly that rivals Northern NJ is the Schuylkill Expressway and it actually could be worse because it is much too narrow. All of this said, PA's roads are in bad shape and the state highway system pales in comparison to NJ's. NJ legitimately has 'super highways' that enable a massive amount of traffic to move around the state fairly easily. NJ has been proactive with overpasses, widenings, etc. PA wasn't developed for growth projections and with a low tax structure they don't have the budget for road widening, redesigns and maintenance. The PA turnpike is without a doubt the worst turnpike in the US.

I strongly caution against living in PA for a variety of reasons. IMO South Jersey is far superior to PA on any front. The closer you are to the 295/I-95 corridor, the better off you will be for mobility in the NE corridor and real estate investment. NYC is easily accessible from Hamilton train station off 295 North in Mercer County. It is less than 30 minutes from Moorestown, there is a direct train to Penn Station. If you go to the NYC 1-2 times a week, Moorestown, Mount Laurel, Marlton and many other towns in SJ are ideal locations.

[BPP1999]

You need to remember that NJ's solution to traffic has been to widen highways. PA is much more wary of widening roads as a method of traffic relief. You need to realize that there are people in PA who do not want PA to become like NJ (have you ever seen the bumper sticker "Don't Jersey PA"?). One way for PA to become like NJ is to widen every road everywhere. That is the NJ way, and it can safely be said that NJ as a state gets little high marks for smart development. NJ is the capital of sprawl, and you can thank your highways for this.

Traffic in Downingtown and Exton will not be as bad as it was in North Jersey, but those areas are not as densely developed, and likely never will be. There are absolutely some traffic problems on area roads out there, but it's not terribly congested like North Jersey.

There are few problems on the PA Turnpike in the Philadelphia area. The main traffic problems are I-95, the southern section of the Blue Route (I-476 near I-95), the Schuylkill Expressway (I-76 between US-202 and US-1, yes it's too narrow) and South Jersey (tons of people driving to and from the bridges). Aside from proximity to NYC and the Jersey shore, I can think of few other reasons to give such a hearty recommendation for South Jersey, unless of course you live there and are a homer.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

Anyway, about the only part of Philly that rivals Northern NJ is the Schuylkill Expressway and it actually could be worse because it is much too narrow. All of this said, PA's roads are in bad

Obviously you havent been in rush hour traffic on 476, 276,676, 202, 309,422, Rt 1 to name a few. It takes people 45 minutes to go 3 exits on 476 southbound at the pm rush hour.

Stick to given out helpful advice contained to NJ. Your past has proven you know nothing about Pa. OP take any advisement (concerning PA) that you get from this poster with a grain of salt. What this individual doesnt know about the PA suburbs could fill volumes.

[MoorestownResident]

Sure I have, I've been all over the Delaware Valley. The tiny roads in PA have too much volume and are in disrepair, it's a tribute to a low tax base and poor planning. The road signage in PA is almost non-existant. Good luck finding your way. The PA turnpike is atrocious. More reasons not to consider PA, IMO.

[marchawg]

Thanks all for the feedback.

@niceguy19125: I plan on taking the train. I drive right now from the Scranton area and it makes me want to kill myself. That's part of the reason I want to move to a larger metro. We only have bus access here, and that takes about 3 hours without traffic (i.e. 4-5 hours on a weekday).

@MR: I'm not opposed to NJ, but right now it makes more sense for me to stay in PA. I just bought a new car and I'm worried about insurance rates skyrocketing in NJ, and the sprawling nature of NJ kind of turns me off a bit. I like being able to walk around a town without having to drive to every stop. Any town recommendations based on that? I'll definitely check them out, but proximity to Camden kind of weirds me out. For example, I wouldn't live in Kearny or Bellville because of proximity to Newark, and I've heard Camden is much worse than Newark.

So it sounds like the PA highways are the major congestion points, not so much side roads and the like. That's good to hear. Does it get worse as you get closer to the actual city of Philadelphia? I realize that West Chester is kind of "out there.."

[marchawg]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

The tiny roads in PA have too much volume and are in disrepair, it's a tribute to a low tax base and poor planning. The road signage in PA is almost non-existant. Good luck finding your way.

I'm actually going to agree with this. I was raised in Northeastern PA, and I still have trouble finding my way sometimes. The section of I-81 from Hazleton through Scranton gets HORRIBLY backed up all the time.

[subwayfan]

Originally Posted by MoorestownResident

I was in Hackensack on Tuesday. It only took me 90 minutes to get home to Moorestown during rush hour. IMO traffic in North Jersey is not as bad as it used to be. Even 80 is better that it was 10-15 years ago. Though the unemployment rate could have a lot to do with it at the moment but I suspect some improvement due to relocations, construction and flex time. Anyway, about the only part of Philly that rivals Northern NJ is the Schuylkill Expressway and it actually could be worse because it is much too narrow. All of this said, PA's roads are in bad shape and the state highway system pales in comparison to NJ's. NJ legitimately has 'super highways' that enable a massive amount of traffic to move around the state fairly easily. NJ has been proactive with overpasses, widenings, etc. PA wasn't developed for growth projections and with a low tax structure they don't have the budget for road widening, redesigns and maintenance. The PA turnpike is without a doubt the worst turnpike in the US.

I strongly caution against living in PA for a variety of reasons. IMO South Jersey is far superior to PA on any front. The closer you are to the 295/I-95 corridor, the better off you will be for mobility in the NE corridor and real estate investment. NYC is easily accessible from Hamilton train station off 295 North in Mercer County. It is less than 30 minutes from Moorestown, there is a direct train to Penn Station. If you go to the NYC 1-2 times a week, Moorestown, Mount Laurel, Marlton and many other towns in SJ are ideal locations.

There are also far more job opportunities on the PA side of the DE River, within the Philadelphia metro, than in South Jersey.

I do realize that we have the PATCO line and it's a great line, and the towns (minus Camden, and minus Lindenwold) it runs through, and a few others (like Maple Shade, Moorestown, Marlton, Mt.Laurel, maybe Mt.Holly too) are generally good choices for places to live though.

But we definitely do have sprawl, where there are 566 municipalities all the state, with very little smart growth and co-operative interaction. It looks like there is small enclave of townships (Cherry Hill) that are economically strong (but usually lacking a walkable type elements, e.g. a mainstreet) surrounded by a number of depressed or less than stellar towns (Blackwood, Clementon, Lindenwold, Berlin, Atco....to Burlington City, Willingboro, etc. to the north). And, we have the big one, Camden.

[MoorestownResident]

It's horrible. I got terribly lost once in PA and I was in close proximity to where I wanted to be but there were no signs at all. Like in NJ, you will frequently see GSP or NJTP signs on adjacent roads or mileage signs, even 5-15 miles away. You rarely see this in PA, it's like good luck if you are not from the area, have fun!

I don't understand your other points. Camden has nothing to do with South Jersey, it is much more tied to Philly and the Delaware waterfront. The towns around Camden, like Collingswood, Haddon Twp, Haddonfield on the Patco train line are all walkable and desirable towns. Haddon Heights is another fairly walkable town. I thought you were living in Hackensack that was the reason for my post.

As for sprawl, there's just as much in PA as there is in NJ. Bucks County is nothing but sprawl, the north and western Philly burbs basically the same. The sprawl now pushes out to Lancaster which is a dump and the Poconos in the other direction which is now also a dump. What you guys don't understand is NJ deals with its traffic, transportation structure and growth issues, PA is not setup for dealing with any of it. That's part of a the shtick of living in a low tax state.