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Old 09-28-2009, 07:33 PM
 
Location: SouthEastern PeeAye
884 posts, read 1,296,953 times
Reputation: 366
Solib sanswered most of the ?s pretty well. I'll see if I can fill in anything missing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CadillacRF View Post
Can either of you shed any light on taxes, housing costs, traffic, etc.? I read some other Philadelphia posts (some of which your names were on) referring to taxes for working/living in the city vs. the suburbs, bad traffic on the Schuylkill (sp?) expressway, high housing costs on the "Main Line", that sort of thing. Would be interested to know what it costs to live in the areas you've mentioned, both rental rates and purchase. For rent, 2 bedroom, 2 bath 1500+ square feet. For buy, 3 bedroom, 2 bath 2000+ square feet. Housing cost in TX is low, so sticker shock may be in order.
Taxes: PA Has a flat wage tax, 3.0?% of your income. The city of Philadelphia also has a flat wage tax, 3.9?%, reduced a slight amount if you work in but do not reside in the city. PA has a 6% sales tax on all hard goods except clothing and food, (prepared food is taxed). Inside the Philadelphia city limits that sales tax is 7% instead of 6%, soon to go up to 8%. On top of this you’ve got real estate taxes that support local school districts (this is the big one), and the tax rate for this varies by school district (as a generalization, this is higher in the more affluent areas, parents demanding more $$ send on schools). This is usually the tax people mention when they say they are paying $4k, $6k or $10k per year. Take the accessed value of your property, times the school district’s ‘millage rate’, and you get your annual taxes. And on top of all this you have some miscellaneous taxes that county and/or local municipal government may charge, such as $100 per year occupational privilege tax, (or 1% of gross receipts for a small business), sewer tax, garbage collection fees, etc., etc.

The answers on housing costs can be pretty wide ranging. And I've not been watching closely in the city myself. I do know some generalizations, The Main Line is expensive, areas of the city are all over the ranges (one or two blocks and you go from high to low extremes). Jenkintown and Abington lower than the main line. The neighborhoods mentioned near South Street can be inexpensive, and also very high, again it depends. Enough for the generalizations, Trulia and Zillow are the best way to see pictures and prices if you're buying. Search by address, or use town names: Plymouth Meeting, Abington, Jenkintown are all named towns. The Main Line is not a town, it’s a collection of townships containing named towns along a 30 +/- mile commuter rail line corridor, names: Narberth, Wynnewood, Ardmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Rosemont, Villanova, Radnor, Wayne, Devon, Strafford (this is about 1/3 of them, there are more further out). In Philadelphia, use the maps and plug in neighborhood names, or try these street addresses, for South Street: South Street and 8th Street, Philadephia, PA. For the Art Museum district (Logan Square, Callowhill and Fairmount), start with Pennsylvania Ave and Fairmont Ave, Philadelphia, PA

Traffic: It can be bad, but not to the point of complete gridlock. A primer: The city is ringed by three interstate highways, I-95 (S and E), I-476 (W) and I-276 (N). In addition, I-76 “the Schuylkill Expressway” bisects the city from the NW to SE, and is a main artery into the City Center. They all get crowded and move slow during commute times. I-76 (and I-676, known as the "Vine Street Expressway") into and out of the city gets crowded on weekends and evenings and during the day, too (i.e, almost all the time). Some points on all these I-highways are known as regularly choke points. And with federal stimulus money flowing, it’s construction season on the Interstates of the area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CadillacRF View Post
Another question, is there adequate parking at surburban train stations? We once lived in the western suburbs of Chicago, and even though all cities had train stations you had to have a pass to park at the train station. The pass was virtually unattainable (up to 10 year waiting list
I can speak to the R5 line that serves the Main Line, east/west along the Route 30 corridor. Parking varies by station stop and by parking type. Some station lots are monthly pass only (calle Permit Lots), and some are by the day ($1.00 in coins). Bigger ones can and do fill up by a certain time in the morning, and you just use the next station stop a mile or two away. I know it can be tight on certain days in certain lots, but I don't hear people complaining about it endlessely. They'll say 'that lot fills up early so I use the X station'. It becomes a routine once you learn how it works. I've never heard of a ten year or even a one year wait for a monthly parking pass. I think it's first come, first serve until the passes for the lot are all gone. Disclaimer, I haven't had the need to get a parking pass in years.

Hope this helps some more.
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Old 09-29-2009, 10:03 AM
 
253 posts, read 492,474 times
Reputation: 113
To the original poster, I would think long and hard before you move here. You're in for a culture shock, the common politeness you take for granted in Texas does not exist here (I know because I'm originally from the South and moved here). The weather gets very cold, especially in relation to Texas, and having to walk every where or use public transportation becomes draining when it's ~20 outside, or the trains are delayed or the labor employees are on strike.
Philly may be "up and coming" but the city is still losing population, you can check this out online. If it is saying anything, the only people that stay long term are the ones that are from here and have family here. So, it still has a heavy blue-collar feel.
Also, Texas does not have state income tax, in Philly you get taxed to death. The property taxes may not be bad in the city itself but that's because they haven't been re-assesed in quite some time and also as a result the Philadelphia Public Schools are a disgrace, so if you think you might ever have children, living in the burbs is a better choice or be prepared to send your children to private school. You also have the city wage tax...you're taxed whether you work or live in the city and taxed more if you live AND work in the city proper. I moved here with the same salary, but my take-home pay was visibily reduced. Also, car insurance, gas, price of every day goods will be significantly higher. I never had a wreck or even a ticket and because of moving to this place my car insurance went up to over $300/month... I didn't keep my car very long after that. Also, if you live in the Art Museum area, which I wouldn't characterize as the safest area either, you may still have a 30 minute walk...so think about that when it's pouring rain or in the dead of winter.
Also crime...yes it's a big city, but every time I turn on the tv, another cop has been killed, there's been another murder, robbery, something. Even the other large cities I lived in didn't have crime like they have here. Also, there's a large homeless population that will get verbally rude with you if you try to walk past and ignore them.
Yes the restaurants are nice but there are many other places to move where they have good restaurants...Chicago (yes cold weather too but infinitely a nicer city than Philadelphia) Nashville, Raleigh/Durham Area, Atlanta, Portland OR, etc...
I've lived here 4 years and only have a couple months left...the day I move away from where will be one of the happiest days of my life.
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Old 09-29-2009, 11:50 PM
 
Location: South Philly
1,943 posts, read 4,110,689 times
Reputation: 580
Wow.

A lot of people I knew down south had never been here before - never been anywhere north of DC - and were really insecure about coming up here for a lot of reasons that I found very strange - mostly tied to cultural stereotypes and other myths of life in "the North".

Some people I knew weren't like that so now I have long time friends from Charleston, Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville and Birmingham who are more or less my neighbors now. Most of them have been here for 4+ years and they all love it.

FYI - the census bureau predictions say that the city will have lost something on the order of 120,000 people from 2000-2010. They made the same prediction in 1998 for the decade of 1990-2000 and the city lost less than half the predicted amount. In the 90's the city was a hot mess and the rate of population loss was still slowing dramatically. The last decade has been much, much different. When this census comes out a year from now I'm confident that the population will be the same as it was in 2000.

Factually, as in, looking it up on weather.com, temperatures in the 20s happen maybe two dozen nights a year. During the day the average January temp is in the low 40s. When the weather is miserable no one with a half a brain takes a 30 minute walk in the rain. You consult a bus schedule or, for $7 you hail a cab to just about anywhere in Center City.

If you're moving to Fairmount, a neighborhood with notorious parking issues, a smidgen of research would tell you that a) get rid of a car or two and/or b) garage the cars you're going to keep because your insurance will be lower . . . or, if you're really a slave to your car, move to Mt. Airy or Chestnut Hill and have your own driveway or just cut to the chase and move to the suburbs. Not that I really understand much of the complaint anyway. My brother moved to South Philly from Charleston with a relatively new Toyota Camry. He bundled his car insurance with his homeowner's policy and with that 10% discount his bill went down by a total of 35% (and it wasn't garaged in either location).

If all you have left is crime, well, yeah, Philly crime is bad - in spots - but the city doesn't show up on the list of 25 most dangerous cities and only breaks out for cities over 500,000 people. For that Philly comes in at #5, right between DC (#4) and Dallas (#6). Houston is #10. That's actually really pathetic for Dallas because, like Houston, most of the suburbs have been annexed and are now within the city limits so that should skew the numbers down a bit. Houston comes in as the 22nd most dangerous metro while neither Dallas nor Philly make the list.

I'll agree that Chicago is an all around nicer city than Philly. Those other places . . . please. Oh, and Portland is lovely, a really nice town, but it's small. It's kind of like comparing Milwaukee to Chicago . . . and good luck finding a job there.

It always amazes me how bitter people can be and then blame the city for making them that way. It's not our fault you didn't really want to come here in the first place.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:40 AM
 
253 posts, read 492,474 times
Reputation: 113
I'll just say that every one I know, not originally from here, has no plans to stay. They're mostly here for education purposes. Also, why do women practically have to go to the ER when they're in labor? Maybe because there is a shortage of OBs due to state malpractice laws, which is driving practicioners out of state...this I know because I'm married to a physician.

Per the Brookings Institute from July 8, 2009: In the past eight years, Philadelphia has lost more than 70,000 people, or roughly 4 percent of its population — a faster rate of population loss than any other American city.
There are myriad excuses for why Philadelphia continues to lose people in this post-racial golden era for urbanity. You could say it’s an old city and all the growth in cities these days is in the sprawling Southwest. Tell that to New York City, which gained 53,000 people in one year. Or Boston, which has added 20,000 people in the past eight years.
You could complain that Philadelphia just happens to be in Pennsylvania which as a state has one of the highest proportions of elderly people, who happen to dying off. But what about the thousands of young people that graduate every year from the 92 colleges in the Philadelphia area?
A high crime rate, a beleaguered education system and unceasing fiscal crises provide other excuses for why so many people have left Philadelphia. To counter these problems, however, the city has provided little incentive for people to stay or move here.


I am actually not a born and bred Southerner, however spent quite some time there before moving here and have friends, who also are not from the South, rather Chiacgo, NYC, Boston, CA, DC, etc and they would never want to move to Philly either, so don't classify it as a "Southern Thing," that's plain ignorance.
Also, have you ever been to any of the cities I mentioned for a period of time recently or are you just being ignorant again? Having a lay-over in the airport does not count. Williamson County, which is part of the Nashville metro-area is the 11th wealthiest county in the country. Fayette County, which is part of the metro-Atlanta area is also on the list. Yes, the Main Line has money, but I don't see Philadelphia or any of it's suburbs, not even any place in PA popping up on any lists touting its economic riches. The closest Philly comes is its proximity to NYC. However, I doubt people in Hunterdon County, NJ really align themselves with Philly vs. New York.

I also am not blaming Philly for making me bitter, in fact I was very excited to move here, however having lived here for some where I'm it, over the cold...interesting you didn't mention all the cold weather we got this past winter, the attitudes of the people here, on a whole they're not friendly or polite, which other people, even people born and raised here agree with me on in comparison to other places. I won't discuss crime, you can turn on the TV any day of the week and someone has been killed, robbed, etc. How many cops has Philadelphia lost recently to violence? You didn't mention that either interestingly enough.
Have a good day!
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:11 AM
 
Location: NJ
590 posts, read 1,477,103 times
Reputation: 269
Quote:
If you don't have kids and you'll be working in the city, you may as well live there. No point in having to spend the time and money to commute and then paying the city wage tax and high suburban property taxes. My wife and I lived in the 'burbs here before moving to Center City. Our combined tax bill (property and wage) today is a little more than $1000 a year lower than my property taxes in the suburbs were 9 years ago. Getting rid of one car and eventually the other put a whole lot more cash in our pockets at the end of each month.
This is correct. But do keep in mind that if you live in Philly, but work outside the city, you will still have to pay the wage tax (3.9%) so you might not enjoy much of a savings living in the city if either of you works outside the city.
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:26 PM
 
26 posts, read 63,633 times
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It really comes down to what you want your day-to-day experiences to be. Ultimately, taxes (property, city wage, etc...) will come out to be very similar in a City vs. Pa Suburb comparison. The real question is personality.
1a. I'm a social and active person and like to get out of the house several times a week and find things to do
1b. I'm more of a "from work to couch/TV to bed" type person
2a. I enjoy a variety of quality food options and eat out once or twice a week on a regular basis
2b. I'm completely content with normal higher-end chain restaurants and prefer to eat in
3a. A little noise (including the occassional siren) won't bother me too much
3b. When I get home and want to relax, the last thing I want to hear is traffic or other distractions
4a. I don't need a huge outdoor space -- small patio or rooftop deck suffices for my needs
4b. I like a decent sized yard and appreciate a little seperation b/t mine and my neighbors' houses
4a. My social life/daily experiences out-weigh the importance of smaller day-to-day comforts
4b. I can't imagine not having a driveway, not being able to unload my groceries from my garage right into my kitchen, dealing with a 100-year old home with some heating issues and without central A/C
5a. I want to experience as much as possible and continually educate myself by taking advantage of lectures and classes at local universities, attending world-renowned art exhibits, going to the opera and other performance art venues, attending sporting events, etc...
5b. I like to check out an ocassional baseball game and art exhibit, but only once or twice a year. Certainly not enough that proximity to the venues is a concern of mine

Obviously, if you choose more of answer 'a', I would think you have the right mentaility and values to appreciate living in the city. If 'b' was more your style, the city will drive you crazy, and the burbs are probably more your speed. The above is a vast generalization, but should give you an idea of what city living is like.
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:39 PM
 
Location: South Philly
1,943 posts, read 4,110,689 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shino306 View Post
I'll just say that every one I know, not originally from here, has no plans to stay. They're mostly here for education purposes.
I'm not from here, and about half the people I know aren't from here either ranging from Oregon and Maryland to Brazil and Scotland. No one would say that this place is without its problems or that it's the best place to live in the country and some of them plan to move "someday" (as do I - but it won't be to another city in the US). My cousin, who went to Temple and lived in North Philly the entire time, is the only person I know who hated their time here.

Quote:
Also, why do women practically have to go to the ER when they're in labor? Maybe because there is a shortage of OBs due to state malpractice laws, which is driving practicioners out of state...this I know because I'm married to a physician.
Never heard of this before and I know a lot of people with children under 3. 4 of my friends have had babies in the last year. 3 at Penn and 1 at Abington. One was a scheduled c-section but no problems otherwise.

Quote:
Per the Brookings Institute from July 8, 2009: [i]In the past eight years, Philadelphia has lost more than 70,000 people, or roughly 4 percent of its population a faster rate of population loss than any other American city.
Right, and Brookings is getting their data from the Census Bureau who were wrong last time and making the same wrong prediction this time. The Census had New York losing population between 1990 and 2000 when the city gained 600,000. So embarrassed by their error they now show NYC gaining half the population between 2000-2010 as it did from 1990-2000, even though the mass influx to NYC didn't really begin until the last 90s. They're guessing. That's what they do and when it comes to big cities they're not very good at it. The only Census data worth looking at is that collected during the decennial census or the ACS.

Quote:
I am actually not a born and bred Southerner, however spent quite some time there before moving here and have friends, who also are not from the South, rather Chiacgo, NYC, Boston, CA, DC, etc and they would never want to move to Philly either, so don't classify it as a "Southern Thing," that's plain ignorance.
Not moving to a place you don't know much about because "you've heard things" is just plain ignorance. In my book it's even more ignorant if you come from another big city. I can forgive my small town friends who were raised to be scared of cities. So your friends give you a hard time about living in a "second tier, ghetto city"? Like this is Detroit or Cleveland?

Quote:
Also, have you ever been to any of the cities I mentioned for a period of time recently or are you just being ignorant again?
I've lived in Richmond, Fayetteville, Chapel Hill, Columbia, Charleston and Columbus, GA. As I mentioned before I have friends from Nashville, Birmingham and Raleigh that I have been friends with since they lived there. Yeah I've been to Atlanta. I lived in Chapel Hill so of course I've been to Raleigh. I was last in Portland 5 years ago and last in Chicago 2 years ago.
Like I said, Portland and Chicago are great. Raleigh and Nashville are, at best, boring. I'm not really impressed that some people who live in some semi-rural counties nearby have a lot of money. There is nothing cosmopolitan about them. They are sprawling, low-density suburbs with small urban cores that no one really uses. I find Charlotte far more impressive than Nashville or Raleigh. Columbia and Charleston (even though much smaller) are more urban than any of those places.

Quote:
Fayette County, which is part of the metro-Atlanta area is also on the list. Yes, the Main Line has money, but I don't see Philadelphia or any of it's suburbs, not even any place in PA popping up on any lists touting its economic riches. The closest Philly comes is its proximity to NYC. However, I doubt people in Hunterdon County, NJ really align themselves with Philly vs. New York.
Not sure what that suburban wealth has to do with anything but the main line is split between 3 different counties. Still, Chester, Bucks, Montgomery and Burlington Counties are all in the top 100 wealthiest counties . . . and it doesn't really bother me that rich and poor people live in the same counties.

Quote:
I also am not blaming Philly for making me bitter, in fact I was very excited to move here, however having lived here for some where I'm it, over the cold...interesting you didn't mention all the cold weather we got this past winter
Cold weather? It hasn't been cold in 7 months and you still have another 6 weeks before it starts to get cold again. this past winter? I can understand if you don't like the cold, or maybe you just don't know how to dress for it but this past winter was pretty average for winters here - you can look all this stuff up on any weather website - average weekly temps (high/low) for December - February
December
47/32
45/31
47/32
45/27

January
45/30
41/29
30/18
38/21
33/22

February
40/22
54/36
43/26
47/28

Conclusion: yeah, it's really cold for 3 weeks in January. Surprise! Now you know when to plan your vacation to the Bahamas.

Quote:
the attitudes of the people here, on a whole they're not friendly or polite, which other people, even people born and raised here agree with me on in comparison to other places.
When I first moved here I expected everyone to have an attitude - everywhere, all the time - b/c that's what I was told. I'd say, on the whole, people are a lot more friendly here than they were in the Carolinas. In my experience, in the southeast anyway, people seem more welcoming because they use formalities a lot more often and will talk about the weather. They don't really care - it's just what they do. I've always found striking up a conversation with a stranger here to be a lot more genuine. When a stranger doesn't feel like having a conversation I don't take it personally.

I think the people who think everyone is rude here aren't particularly friendly or courteous people themselves and whereas, people in other parts of the country might tolerate it, people here, generally speaking, don't.

Quote:
I won't discuss crime, you can turn on the TV any day of the week and someone has been killed, robbed, etc.
Sorry, in what big city does this not happen? NYC with 1000 murders per year? Or how about DC with 181 murders but less than half the population of Philadelphia? The only regions of the country that can boast low violent crime rates are New England and the Pacific Northwest.


Quote:
How many cops has Philadelphia lost recently to violence? You didn't mention that either interestingly enough.
In the last year, 2 cops. In the meantime Chicago has lost 5.

Quote:
Have a good day!
I like living here so it's always a good day for me.
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Old 09-30-2009, 12:51 PM
 
Location: South Philly
1,943 posts, read 4,110,689 times
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commuting north: nice list - that's pretty much what it comes down to, personal preferences.

FYI - there is a lot of new construction in the city. Most places have garages. Central air is pretty standard these days for anyone looking at a house (new or old) for $200k and up.
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:01 PM
 
26 posts, read 63,633 times
Reputation: 26
Yeah, while everyone is certainly welcome to express their opinions, most of Shino's comments seem extremely subjective and a bit exaggerated.
-- The weather? Really? You didn't realize you'd have some chilly days in the winter and some hot humid ones in the summer? That's like saying I moved to Chicago but hate it because it's so windy. -- Crime? That's not even close to issue for most of us. Unless you're moving to Philly to muscle in on the drug trade, you have very little chance of becoming a victim. Something like 95% of violent crime occurs between people that know each other (either drug motivated or domestic disputes). Additionally, look at a map of Philly neighborhoods and you'll see where the vast majority of violent crime occurs (in neighborhoods that most of us will never step foot in, over the course of our entire lives).
-- Rude people? Well, this is just silly. Philadelphians aren't aliens - we're just like other people all over the world. Some of us are rude, some are nice; some are depressed, some are happy. I've been good friends with my neighbors for as long as I can remember. As Solibs mentioned above, general manarisms of people do vary from region to region, so it might not be exactly what you're used to.
-- Women in the ER while giving birth? I don't really understand this comment, but I will say that Philadelphia has some of the best hospitals, clinics and specialists you will find anywhere in the world. In fact, one of the city's main industries is healthcare -- another being higher education (these two overlap quite a liberally as you can imagine).
-- Your friends don't want to move here? Well, whatever... I have tons of friends who are thrilled that they moved there, and many more who would love the opportunity to move here. Guess that's totally about who you know.
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Old 09-30-2009, 01:50 PM
 
253 posts, read 492,474 times
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I agree, Philadelphia has excellent hospitals, my husband is a physician at Penn, so no disagreement there. However, from an article from Philly.com dated April 24, 2009: The report by the Administrative Office of Pennsylvania Courts showed that 1,602 malpractice lawsuits were filed in 2008. In Philadelphia, which had the highest caseload, there was a 54 percent decrease in filings. Rendell said claims had dropped to $174 million, a 50 percent decrease since 2003.
The results were a sharp turnaround from nearly a decade ago, when insurance rates for doctors in Pennsylvania were skyrocketing, particularly for specialists such as obstetricians and neurosurgeons. Doctors protested that the high premiums were driving them out of business and limiting patients' access to care. So, the issue is getting better but the article says Philadelphia, out of the entire state has the highest rates of malpractice...how does this entice doctors to want to stay and practice and does that mean the doctors in Philadelphia are worse than the ones in Pittsburgh or there is something else going on to drive these lawsuits? As a disclaimer, my husband has never been sued for malpractice, however in the specialty he is in, it's very rare and would be a case of gross negligence.

Crime still happens in good neighborhoods...Boyd's was robbed in the middle of the day this summer, someone drove their car through the front window of Diesel on Walnut this Spring to steal jeans, Random Rapes of joggers this summer in Fairmount Park, and let's not forget about the destruction that happened in Center City after the Phillies won the World Series, not very classy. So, you can't claim crime only happens in bad neighborhoods.
Chicago is the 3rd largest city in the country, Philadelphia is the 6th. So, twice the size. NYC is the first and in 2009, they've had 0 actually killed in the line of duty (not accounting for accidents). So what's your arugement now?
Plus, the weather for someone coming from TX vs. someone used to the weather in northeast is very different. The avg high of this Jan was 34, with the low being 23, in Texas it's obviously higher.
No one even mentioned the taxes and cost of living being much higher here than Texas. How much do you think a 2 bdrm condo in the larger cities of Dallas/Houston cost compared to one of the same quality here? My rent for a 2bdrm brand new apartment with full size washer/dryer in the best part of town of where I lived before moving to Philly was $1000/ month, now my 1 brdm, significantly smaller place is 68% more.
It's all things to think about before someone moves here and every one is entitled to their opinion. Philly does have a lot of great things...great restaurants, great sports town (if that's your thing), different neighborhoods representing different ethnicities and lifestyles, lots of open-minded people, close to NYC and DC...but it's very different from a small town in Texas.
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