Coming to Check Out Philadelphia Area (appointed, living, friendly)

[Commuting North]

OMG! Video: Teen Attacked, Beaten to Death in Melee - Chicago Breaking News

I thought these kind of assults only occured in run-down, mean, evil cities like Philly. Shocking!

[Shino306]

I think MBlueR was making a point about the real estate because Solib was not doing a fair comparison, yes there are high rents in all places but what you get for the same amount of money in one place (Dallas, NYC, Omaha) does not equal what you get in another (Philly, Chicago, Akron).
Also, per CommutingNorth's statement about housing prices being indicative of a good job market. Unemployment in Philadelphia is currently above the national average of 9.7% per the Bureau of Labor & Statistics. Housing prices are lower in Dallas (MBlueR' s hometown) but unemployment is lower in Dallas at approx 8%. Also, looking at Pittsburgh, the other major PA town, with significantly lower housing prices, Pittsburgh's unemployment is also approx 8%, so statistically lower than Philly's.
NYC has higher housing prices than Philly, so per CommutingNorth's comments, should be doing better than Philly, but their unemployment rate is also higher than Philly's.
So, I don't see how your arguement about lower housing prices automatically means the economy is WORSE in those areas. Obviously, the real estate in places like Cleveland, Detroit, and other "Rust Belt" places will be low coupled with high unemployment due to what economist term "Structural Economic issues," so making that comparison is not fair either, like you claimed the comparison the CA's economy/real estate was unfair. Also, the South and some areas of the Southwest is where the population has historically grown the most, however cost of living remains lower. Obviously, people wouldn't move there if there was no opportunity for advancement.

[LibraGirl123]

Originally Posted by PeeAye Native

Traffic: It can be bad, but not to the point of complete gridlock. A primer: The city is ringed by three interstate highways, I-95 (S and E), I-476 (W) and I-276 (N).

Not to be picky-picky, but...some of your directionals are off.

I-95 runs north and south.
I-476 (the Blue Route) also runs north and south.
I-276 runs east and west (it's the part of the PA turnpike east of Valley Forge)

[Commuting North]

You're looking at ALL of Philadelphia with the employment numbers, yet in this thread, we're only discussing renting or living in certain neighborhoods. Sure, you can rent a one bedroom place for $600 in Philly. Hell, you can rent a $200/month place. Of course you're going to be in the Badlands in North Philly, but it can be done. The areas that we're discussing in this thread cost upward of $1,000 for a one bedroom b/c there is demand for that price. If there was no demand, the market would set the price lower. And, a 1.5% increase in unemployment in two smaller cities does mean the economies are necessarily healthier.

Really though, this entire discussion is silly. The perfect lifestyle for one may be a nightmare for another. After reading through this thread, I'm not sure you Philly haters are really hating on Philly as much as you are hating on big cities in the NE. Smaller Southern towns more your speed? That's cool with me.

[Shino306]

It was actually for Philadelphia proper...being above the national average, it did not include Montgomery County, Deleware County, etc or the Jersey suburbs, which are sometimes grouped together with the "Philadelphia Metro Area." So, yes Center City and the accompanying neighborhoods that everyone was discussing does have that high of unemployment.
Yes, this discussion is getting tiring...live and let live, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and no one ever mentioned "hating" on big cities in the NE. NYC, DC, Boston are all great cities in my opinion, Philly has it's pros too. If you love Philly and think it's the next best thing to sliced bread...I'm sincere when I say I'm glad you're happy living here, just like if someone was truly happy living in Alaska, that's great for them! Hopefully this is the end of this inane banter.

[PeeAye Native]

Originally Posted by LibraGirl123

Not to be picky-picky, but...some of your directionals are off.

I-95 runs north and south.
I-476 (the Blue Route) also runs north and south.
I-276 runs east and west (it's the part of the PA turnpike east of Valley Forge)

I was trying to describe the four sides of the box or ring that the highways form around the city, not which way they run. I-95 in the S and E leg, I-476 on the west, and I-276 on the north.

[solibs]

Originally Posted by MBlueR

I'm actually from Texas, got my undergrad there, got my master's in another Southern city then moved up here several years ago and agree with Shino too.
The people here are NOT warm and friendly like they were in the South and personally I did not exchange superficial pleasantries with my neighbors down there and just discuss the weather as Solibs would like to say. We talked about everything going on in our lives, the neighborhood, etc..they would watch my place and cats when I went out of town.

I'm not talking about my neighbors here or down south. I'm talking about making small talk with strangers - in a store, in an elevator, sitting next to you at a ball game, etc.

Depending on the weather, I talk to my neighbors at length. Sometimes for too long and I forget that I'm supposed to be doing work around the house. Some of them I've gotten to know really well and we go over to each other's houses just to watch the ball games or just to have a beer. I have keys to their houses, I dogsit when they go out of town, I babysit their kids when they want to go to the movies. I don't know how much more friendly you can get.

So those are people that I've known for 3 years. Walking the dog always takes 20 minutes longer than it should just from getting wrapped up in conversation at the dog park with people I just met 5 minutes ago.

Now, I don't even know my neighbors! They duck into their places as quickly as possible, everybody stares at the floor or their blackberries in the elevators, you pass people in the halls and they just look down. Heck, at this point, I would like to exchange some superficial pleasantries about the weather vs. the cold silence that envelops everyone!

You live in a Center City high-rise and you're surprised that people are cold and snooty? Your neighbors, more than half of whom are probably from some other part of the country (or world), are not indicative of the manners of everyone else who lives here. hi-rise living is notoriously alienating - there are statistics galore to that end. It's why I choose to live in a rowhouse in a neighborhood where everyone knows everyone.

In any case, if you want to smile and say hi in the elevator, I'll say hi back but yeah, it's generally considered poor etiquette to try to start a conversation on a 20 second elevator ride . . . and to chat up strangers in small, enclosed spaces. When you live in a big city you have people in your face all day long. You don't have to talk to every single one of them. If I said "hi" to everyone I passed on the street I would have no voice left at the end of the day.

Another example...I belonged to a gym where I came from and one here. I go at the same time I went to my old gym...basically the crack of dawn, so one sees the same people every time. Before, everyone would talk to one another, you knew what their names were, what they did for a living, what their families were up to, where they were going on their next vacation, people would talk about the local sports teams, etc. Here, they exchange "hello's" in the morning, but no one talks after that! I bet most of the people I work out with don't even know one another's names! I have TONS of other examples but those are the most striking.

I belong to the gym in my neighborhood. I don't know anyone's name there. It's just not a place where people socialize. People socialize at the neighborhood pub, in civic groups, with their neighbors, at work, on the ball field, etc. I have a busy social life and don't have time to hang out chatting at the gym or in the grocery store parking lot.

I'm suprised solibs found Nashville, Atlanta, and the UNC-Chapel Hill area boring! I must say he/she must not have been there very long or looked very hard!

I didn't say Atlanta was boring. It's just not for me.

I lived in Chapel Hill for a year (Carrboro, actually) and it's not a city. It's two small towns with a giant university attached. There's enough there to keep you busy for a few months before you start heading up to Durham, which isn't that great, or you start making the almost hour drive to Raleigh, which will keep you busy for a few more months.

At least in Chapel Hill you can get to Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, Winston-Salem and even Charlotte and Richmond in a reasonable amount of time. Nashville is far from everything, I found it a nice place to visit, I could live there for a year but it's not a place I could stay in.

I have friends, who are transplants to those areas, so not even from the South in many instances, that love living there and I love to visit.

When I lived in the Carolinas (and Virginia and Georgia and Missouri) I knew lots of people from this part of the country. Some loved it, some couldn't wait to leave. That's all a matter of preference.

The restaurant scene in all three is great, especially Atlanta, there's lots of outdoor activities to do in those places, then the local culture of each place. A lot of my friends have visited me since I moved up here, but they have told me they wouldn't want to live here. So, like Shino...my friends aren't clamoring to move to the "Great White North" as one of my guy friends terms it. Also, I personally find Charlotte to be boring and some other places in the Carolinas to be much nicer. However, every one is entitled to their own opinion!

Atlanta does have a good restaurant scene. Nashville and The Triangle have good restaurants but the number of quality places in those two places pales in comparison to here and the restaurants that are there are usually far flung. In Raleigh you can't go to happy hour at Parc, make dinner reservations then walk over to Tinto, walk to Capo Giro for some dessert, then stroll over to XIX for a nightcap and when you're done hail a cab and go home. I could do it when I lived in Charleston but it would be the same 4 places every time.

Also Solibs where in Dallas and how big were the $1700/month apartments? Were they in the Highland Park or Turtle Creek area and 2-3 bedrooms? I'm from Dallas and the cost of living in Dallas is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than in center city Philadelphia. The average cost of a "nice" one bedroom apartment in Dallas is probably $800-$1000 dollars. That's what both my siblings pay. Shino said her one bedroom apartment is approx $1600, for $1600...just looking at Craigslist this exact moment in Dallas gets you a 3 bedroom apartment with stainless steel appliances and parking. Most of the rents being advertised are much much lower or significantly higher like low $2k for the Turtle Creek area, which is an extremley high end area, however bigger than a one bedroom. My rent is lower than Shino's, but I can guarantee you it's not the same quality I could get in Dallas for the same amount of money, nor include what most Texans/Americans take as a right...a parking spot! So, let's make sure we're comparing apples to apples here, why don't we? :-)
Sure Philly has lots of great things going on, but we can't overlook the not so great things either and the differences one feels when they're not from here!

Exactly, lets compare apples to apples, Highland Park isn't downtown Dallas. You can't compare Center City Philadelphia to a Dallas neighborhood of detached, single-family housing. If you want to compare Highland Park to a place in Philadelphia then you should be looking at Chestnut Hill, Elkins Park, Gladwyne, Bala, etc.

I still don't understand, if you and Shino wanted suburban amenities or prefer that lifestyle, why did you move to one of the most densely populated neighborhoods in the country?

[solibs]

Originally Posted by Shino306

It was actually for Philadelphia proper...being above the national average, it did not include Montgomery County, Deleware County, etc or the Jersey suburbs, which are sometimes grouped together with the "Philadelphia Metro Area."

maybe this misunderstanding is how you guys wound up living in neighborhoods that don't suit your lifestyles.

Philadelphia is the central city. Together with the 7 suburban counties it's the Philadelphia Metro or, throw in Mercer, New Castle and a few other counties and you have the Delaware Valley. The city of Philadelphia has a population of 1.4 million. The metro has a population of about 5.5 million. The Delaware Valley (really, the media market) has a population of about 6.5 million.

Houston, the city, continues to annex the suburbs around it so that it now covers an area of 607 square miles and growing. Compare that to Philadelphia which is 135 square miles and not allowed to annex the suburbs. You can live in the suburbs in Houston and still be within the city limits. That's not the case here.

It sounds to me like you would be much happier living in Bala or Haddonfield.

Oh, and winter is coming. My sister-in-law, born and raised in Charleston, thanks me every winter for this advice - "buy a real winter coat, dress in layers, WEAR A SCARF!, and invest in these http://www.jcrew.com/AST/Browse/Wome...0576/10576.jsp and you can brave anything"

[donnamarie8]

I absolutely agree. The people here are rude and don't want to talk. I am not an in your face person but a hello would be nice! That is not too much. I don't want to have conversations in a gym.....Everyone is miserable and into their own world.. See my post on another heading and Philly...and I am FROM Philly...

This is NOT just center city. IT is the suburbs too.

[solibs]

Originally Posted by donnamarie8

I absolutely agree. The people here are rude and don't want to talk. I am not an in your face person but a hello would be nice!

I don't understand . . . do people ignore you when you say hello or are you just walking around waiting for other people to say hello first?