U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Philadelphia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-11-2007, 10:04 AM
 
10,264 posts, read 16,294,548 times
Reputation: 4806
I don't know what you mean by a VHF TV station. There is a local station WFMZ-TV Online - is that a vhf station? A friend of my daughter's just got a job there - first one right right out of college! Their office is right off of Rt. 22 and Route 145. There's also a pbs station - wlvt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-12-2007, 05:24 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
167 posts, read 165,226 times
Reputation: 107
I'm about to date myself by going back to the days when "all-channel" TV sets were a novelty and the UHF dial didn't click on a channel. That's way before cable gave us, first 57, and now 757, channels with nothin' on.

Broadcast TV stations transmit signals in two bands: VHF (very high frequency) and UHF (ultra high frequency). Back before all-channel sets, you needed to buy a separate tuner to receive UHF stations (channels above 13), which meant that those stations got much smaller audiences. You didn't have network TV stations on UHF channels until the late 1970s, when all-channel sets were universal. Because of this, it was preferable for a city to have a VHF TV station licensed to it, and the FCC allocated channels and licenses so that most cities with more than ~50,000 or so souls had one. The only ones that didn't were those too close to a larger city--within about 40 miles of the city with the existing VHF stations, whose signals could travel that far over the air.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2007, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
167 posts, read 165,226 times
Reputation: 107
Adding maybe more detail than you wanted to know:

The VHF channels are 2 through 13; everything else is UHF. To avoid signal interference, VHF TV stations could not occupy adjacent channels in the same city -- except for channels 4 and 5, which are separated by a sufficiently large chunk of spectrum. (Channels 6 and 7 are separated by an even larger chunk of spectrum, so why those two adjacent channels are not assigned to the same city mystifies me.) The audio transmission on TV channel 6 can be heard on your FM radio near the low end of the band.

Also to avoid interference with distant signals, adjacent broadcast territories got stations on either the larger block of available channels (2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13) or the smaller one (3, 6, 8, 10, 12). In most cases, the large US cities were far enough apart from one another to allow them to use the larger block. Philadelphia, a mere 90 miles from New York, was not so lucky; nor was Providence, R.I., 50 miles from Boston. Baltimore, MD, and Washington, DC, being less than 40 miles apart, had to share the large block.

Smaller cities within a 40-mile radius of the larger ones had to get channels from the same block the larger city used. Which brings us to this region, which had five VHF channels available and four cities large enough to warrant TV stations: Philadelphia, Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, Wilmington and Lancaster. Apparently, the Lehigh Valley got the short end of the stick: Philly, much larger by far, got three of the five, Wilmington one (Channel 12, WHYY, the Delaware Valley's main PBS station, now licensed to both Philly and Wilmington) and Lancaster one (WGAL TV 8).

I'm a little curious as to why; maybe distance has something to do with it?

All-channel sets and cable, of course, have made these distinctions irrelevant -- Channel 69 (the Lehigh Valley's commerical TV station) and Channel 39 (Lehigh Valley PBS, which is also carried on most cable systems in Philadelphia and environs) are as valuable and accessible as Channels 3, 6, 10, 12 and 29 are (Channel 8 isn't carried east of Lancaster County on cable, it appears).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-12-2007, 10:48 AM
 
961 posts, read 1,597,367 times
Reputation: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
jumping back in for a minute- Quakertown is wholly in Bucks county, so what is considered the Northern most point for the Philadelphia MSA?
Technically speaking, Bucks County and hence the Philly MSA, reaches just south of Coopersburg.

Great info MarketStEl
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-08-2010, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ area
6,246 posts, read 3,595,863 times
Reputation: 3341
The Philadelphia Metropolitan Area

Pennsylvania Counties:
Chester County
Bucks County
Philadelphia County
Montgomery County
Delaware County

New Jersey Counties:
Camden County
Cape May County
Salem County
Burlington County
Atlantic County
Gloucester County
Cumberland County

Delaware Counties
New Castle County
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2010, 06:23 PM
 
Location: a swanky suburb in my fancy pants
3,391 posts, read 4,519,933 times
Reputation: 1483
MarketStEl's story about the shift of Mercer Co from Philly to NY is absolutly true. I remember when it happened. To help make up for the loss Philly was given Salem Co, NJ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-09-2010, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
3,925 posts, read 8,359,839 times
Reputation: 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001 View Post
MarketStEl's story about the shift of Mercer Co from Philly to NY is absolutly true. I remember when it happened. To help make up for the loss Philly was given Salem Co, NJ
Salem County should be Philly metro and Mercer County should be Philly metro. There shouldnt be any trade off. Its ridiculous that Trenton/Mercer is not part of Philly metro and makes a mockery of the census designated metro boundaries imo. There is a light pollution satellite image of the NE and Trenton is 100% connected to Philly big suburban gap then you hit North Jersey.

With 422 blowing up Reading(Berks) should also be part of Philly MSA. Northern Bucks/Montco is also expanding with the Lehigh Valley. I get a bit perturbed on the City vs City thread when people from these 10,000 sq mile metroes disrespect Philly which is pigeon holed at 5,000 sq miles.

I just dont understand how Houston,Atl,dallas,Chicago,Wash DC are all 10,000 sq miles plus but Philadlephia is 5,000 sq miles and cant get credit for urban areas that are 20-30-40 miles away like Trenton/reading/ Lehigh Valley.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2010, 08:37 AM
 
10,264 posts, read 16,294,548 times
Reputation: 4806
Why did this thread get brought back to life??

Why would Lehigh Valley be counted as part of Philadelphia? There is no rail service up here and even the bus service is not affordable to be used on a commutable basis. Besides, we have our own city's to be connected to.

I guess the new census will sort some of this out.
__________________
Please follow THESE rules.

Any Questions on how to use this site? See this.

Realtors, See This.

Moderator - Lehigh Valley, NEPA, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Education and Colleges and Universities.

When I post in bold red, that is Moderator action and per the TOS can be discussed only via Direct Message.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-10-2010, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Villanova Pa.
3,925 posts, read 8,359,839 times
Reputation: 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
Why did this thread get brought back to life??

Why would Lehigh Valley be counted as part of Philadelphia? There is no rail service up here and even the bus service is not affordable to be used on a commutable basis. Besides, we have our own city's to be connected to.

I guess the new census will sort some of this out.
Why is Fredericksburg Va and Baltimore (110 mi apart) part of the same metro?

I dont think Allentown and Philadlephia should be part of the same PMSA. The CMSA you could argue?

I'm just perplexed how other metro areas can span 150- miles in length and are designated as the same metro yet the suburban professional hub of Philadlephia Plymouth Meeting, Ft Wash, Doylestown is only 20-30 miles from Lehigh County.

Its as if the BEA threw a net around RT 202 and the Del River as far as Philaldephia is concerned. This is the oldest city in the country and its regional influence should not be undercounted. How does a johnny come lately metro like Houston get credit for 10,000 sq miles and Philadelphia which has been around forever is compressed to half of Houstons encapturement area?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-11-2010, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
167 posts, read 165,226 times
Reputation: 107
In reply to the post immediately upthread:

Remember, outside the six New England states, where counties are politically and (largely) administratively irrelevant, and Alaska, which has no counties, the county (in Louisiana, the parish) is the basic unit of the Census Bureau definition of a metropolitan area. Counties can encompass far more land than what is truly in the urbanized zone. If you'd like to see a good example of what I'm talking about, take a look at the counties that comprise Southern California's two big metros, Los Angeles and San Diego. Both San Bernardino County (LA) and San Diego County extend well into the desert that lies east of their namesake cities.

In Virginia, cities are independent of any county, but if a city is entirely surrounded by a county (as most are), it and the county around it will most likely be in the same metro. Spottsylvania County, which surrounds Fredericksburg, is part of the Washington metro area, IIRC.

And once again, counties are included in metro areas based on commuting patterns -- specifically, the percentage of the county's population that commutes to work in one of the existing metro area counties. Here's another example of the practice in action besides the one regarding Mercer County I described earlier:

Leavenworth County, Kansas, borders two of the five core counties of the Kansas City, Mo-Kan., metro area: Platte (Missouri, which includes part of the City of Kansas City, Missouri) and Wyandotte (Kansas, now consolidated with the City of Kansas City, Kansas), and when the area's public transit authority was created in the early 1970s, it ran a regular bus route from downtown Kansas City to downtown Leavenworth. But the presence of both Fort Leavenworth and the Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary within the county kept the percentage of Leavenworth Countians commuting to work in one of the existing KC metro counties low for several decades after the county probably should have been added to the Census Bureau's Kansas City MSA (it was finally added to the metro just before the 1990 census). Leavenworth County has always been part of the Kansas City media market (DMA, or Dominant Market Area).

As commercial development has spread into northern Bucks County, a growing percentage of Lehigh County residents commute to jobs there. It's not likely that the Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton MSA will be merged with the Philadelphia MSA, because Allentown (Pennsylvania's third largest city) and Bethlehem are urban centers in their own right, but if the percentage continues to climb, it may well happen that the two counties (Lehigh and Northampton) will be included in the Philadelphia CSA (before the Mercer shift: Philadelphia-Wilmington-Trenton; after it: Philadelphia-Wilmington-Atlantic City; sometime in the future: Philadelphia-Allentown-Wilmington-Atlantic City?).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Philadelphia

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top