Surprised and not in Good Way (suburban, nice areas, areas)

[thekish]

Originally Posted by Tone509

Getting back more specifically to Philly, I would like to see the charter school system expand and given more time to succeed (or not) before considering school vouchers.

Another mistake. Could you name some good school districts with charter schools? Philly, DC, NY? Haha. Charter schools are all in cities with LOUSY schools. How come the districts in the burbs with superior results don't have any charter schools?

The cities are using charter schools to replace the regular schools that used to be good schools before they were infested with criminals.

Here is the question. Do you think the majority of students in the public schools are good or bad? Let's assume that 90% of the students are good. Why would you spend BILLIONS on new charter schools if only 10% of the students are the problem? If the problem students are the minority and they are the cause of the problem then why not build several central Glen Mills style reform schools? A typical school that holds 2-3k students costs about $100 million. A couple of reform schools is cheaper than dozens of charter schools.

[thekish]

Originally Posted by Shizzles

If you pay school taxes, you should get a school voucher. Period, rich, poor, black, white, whatever. Playing the social justice game only means more middle class/upper class families leave the city, and then how well off will the poor be?

No you should not. Your kids should get a seat in a PUBLIC school. If you want to send your kids to private school then you should pay for it yourself.

PS. The poor made their own bed. They are the cause of upper and middle class families leaving the city.

[thekish]

Originally Posted by slickvic277

I don't agree with this.Lincoln has the potential to be a terrific neighborhood school.The city should really stop this "busing in" nonsense.If kids from other neighborhoods want to go to schools outside there neighborhoods they should have to have a high level of academic performance,why should every low life, hood rat, future ex con be aloud to go to any school they wish.

The number one reason why people with children leave the city is the horrible state of the public school system.

Concentrate the problematic students to specific schools and it will be easier to address there issues,instead of spreading them all through out the city,especially the N.E.

I'm tired of hearing about "every kid deserves a chance" crap.I've only been out of high school since 99',these little animals are completely out of control. These kids aren't as innocent or nieve as people think.There violent criminals and they know exactly what there actions and intentions are.

Imagine if only the kids from the area went to Lincoln it would be a 1000% better school and many, many more young families would be staying or relocating to the area so there kids could go the brand spanking new Lincoln High, instead the little brats are already destroying the inside of the building.

If they weren't bringing in kids from other neighborhoods schools like Lincoln, Washington, and North East would be much, much better schools and the neighborhoods would be better off as a result.JMO.

Lincoln was a good school before school choice. Almost all the public schools were good schools before school choice.

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by thekish

Another mistake. Could you name some good school districts with charter schools? Philly...?

Talking about other cities' schools would take us even more off-topic than we already technically are. But I did a quick search and found this optimistic report on Philly charter schools:

Charter Schools Summary (http://www.gpuac.org/media/CharterSchoolsSummary.html - broken link)

Here's a snippet regarding test scores:

At least one charter high school performed better on each grade and subject of the PSSA than all of the District high schools. Many charter high schools performed better on all subjects and grades of the TerraNova than District high schools. When examined by region , charter high schools often had better scores on the standardized test than their District counterparts.

[thekish]

Originally Posted by Tone509

Talking about other cities' schools would take us even more off-topic than we already technically are. But I did a quick search and found this optimistic report on Philly charter schools:

Charter Schools Summary (http://www.gpuac.org/media/CharterSchoolsSummary.html - broken link)

Here's a snippet regarding test scores:

At least one charter high school performed better on each grade and subject of the PSSA than all of the District high schools. Many charter high schools performed better on all subjects and grades of the TerraNova than District high schools. When examined by region , charter high schools often had better scores on the standardized test than their District counterparts.

It is a ridiculous comparison. It would be like Lower Merion forming a charter school with top students from LM and Harriton and then comparing their test scores to Philly public school. The reality is there is no comparison. The public schools in the burbs that don't have charter schools are far superior to the public schools in Philly with charter schools.

I don't believe the results from Philly charter schools or public schools to begin with. The teachers have acknowledged that they have been pressured to improve results and some of them have resorted to improving the results by changing the scores.

[FindingZen]

Originally Posted by thekish

It is a ridiculous comparison. It would be like Lower Merion forming a charter school with top students from LM and Harriton and then comparing their test scores to Philly public school. The reality is there is no comparison. The public schools in the burbs that don't have charter schools are far superior to the public schools in Philly with charter schools.

I don't believe the results from Philly charter schools or public schools to begin with. The teachers have acknowledged that they have been pressured to improve results and some of them have resorted to improving the results by changing the scores.

I respect your opinion in the first paragraph although your thoughts in the second paragraph may be speculative in my opinion.

And with that...Please heed the previous advisory and feel free to share additional thoughts, if any, regarding the Newtown incident.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by thekish

PS. The poor made their own bed. They are the cause of upper and middle class families leaving the city.

So, let's not give poor children -- who are in that environment through no fault of their own -- access to education that is on par with their much more affluent peers; only continuing a cycle of poverty that will can only be broken by combatting low educational attainment rates?

Not seeing the "logic" in that one -- just a knee-jerk response that reeks of classism.

[thekish]

Originally Posted by Duderino

So, let's not give poor children -- who are in that environment through no fault of their own -- access to education that is on par with their much more affluent peers; only continuing a cycle of poverty that will can only be broken by combatting low educational attainment rates?
.

Wrong. The poor have access. The problem with the inner city schools is the students and their parents don't care about education.

We have already tried it your way and your way results in all the public schools being destroyed. We did it MY way back in the day and my way resulted in good public schools. The poor that you supposidely care so much about actually had higher graduation rates using my method.

Moderator Cut

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by thekish

Wrong. The poor have access. The problem with the inner city schools is the students and their parents don't care about education.

We have already tried it your way and your way results in all the public schools being destroyed. We did it MY way back in the day and my way resulted in good public schools. The poor that you supposidely care so much about actually had higher graduation rates using my method.

No need for personal attacks. Perhaps I was too quick to apply the "classist" label.

We all know that something has to be done differently in terms of inner-city education. I agree that you can't compare city charter schools to suburban charter schools since they are fundamentally different in terms of demographics. You're also right that parents need to be more involved in their children's education, but there is no clear answer on how to instill that involvement.

Personally, I think one great recent example is the cachement around UPenn. When you have investment from higher educational institutions like Penn, the results are outstanding:

"Since this story was originally posted, Penn Alexander has continued to perform well. The school made Adequate Yearly Progress in both 2008 and 2009. In 2009, 84% of students met or exceeded proficiency standards on state reading tests, while 84.1% did so in math. Even more impressive: There was virtually no gap between economically disadvantaged students and their more advantaged peers. 83.9% of economically disadvantaged students met or exceeded proficiency standards on state reading tests; 84% did so in math."

Designing an Exemplar: University of Pennsylvania and the Penn Alexander School | LFA: Join The Conversation - Public School Insights

This model should be emulated in other parts of the city. We have plenty of schools in Philly -- let's put them to good use in terms of implementing programs for students in the adjacent neighborhoods.

[golgi1]

Originally Posted by niceguy19125

As a frequent Amtrak passenger between Philly and NYC, it's downright grim to ride through from the minute you hit the Philly line and meander through NE/North Philly onto 30th Street Station. The shear magnitude of decay and abandoned buildings is overwhelming. How can all of that ever be overcome?

I'm a lifelong philly resident. My family has been here since it was farmland.

Its about economic production (GDP) in ratio to the population numbers.

In other words, there isn't enough money (well paying jobs) in the city to NOT have the decay that envelopes the entire central part of the city, for miles.

Money to a city is like oxygen to a living cell. It begins to die when there isn't enough. The decay and the ghetto neighborhoods are like the dying outer layers of the cell. The city is simply too large in population, compared to what it produces.

When I go to a wealthier city, like VA Beach where a friend of mine lives, the quality of life difference is shocking. You can feel the change in your soul both coming and going.

Philly is a corrupt cesspool that currently survives by trying to extort as much money from the poor as possible (the PPA, the casinos, etc).

The police are brutal and historically corrupt. I've personally seen cops beat the crap out of two people for no reason at all. One on my front lawn. They occasionally catch the cops doing this, but more often than not, they are not caught. It goes on constantly.

When my grandfather owned a bar here, the police tried to extort protection money from him (just like the mob) and then set him up for a underage bust when he declined to pay. Granted, this was int he 1950's / early 1960's.

Ridiculously high paying patronage jobs abound. Furthermore, the state of Pennsylvania does its best to leach off of the city as much as possible. (Thanks Rendell. Way to pay back your hometown.)

So many classless wastes of life here. People who live to drink, take pills, and watch sports.

And yes, the city is very dangerous. Don't walk around in bad neighborhoods, or neighborhoods that your unfamiliar with after dark. I've been robbed at gunpoint twice, once in broad daylight. And I'm very streetsmart. Doesn't matter.

If it wasn't for my family, I would move and never come back.

And I'm sure this will draw the usual "Well no one is stopping you from leaving" comments. Bring em on. If you don't think what I'm saying is true, then you have rose colored glasses on and are an apologist. Fact is, I've earned the right to both be here and to leave, as I so please. I've paid my dues.