South Philly Safety Map (Philadelphia, Washington: homes, neighborhood, living)

[otters21]

Originally Posted by christinaa28

I live in the Dickinson Narrows neighborhood on Moore street which seems to be in your orange section. It deserves its orange color. Our Civic Association fell apart and I am working to rebuild it. Hard go when you are new to the area and have no idea about histories. It is a rough area lots of drugs and shootings. We have almost zero business development. Look at the map. You can see how we are squeezed between two "Perfect South Philly" locations. How did this happen, historically? How do I change it? Why were the borders drawn this way? Is it a race thing? Is it an economic thing? I am looking for community organizers to help me, help my neighborhood. It's really dishearting to see this map and I almost want to cry because I feel so helpless. Please help!

I feel bad to tell you this but your area has been sketchy for a very longtime. I lived around there from 1983 to 1992 ( fortunately I lived on the 300 block of Dickinson St which is in the green zone but only two blocks away from the orange zone) and it was not a good area for a long time even way before then. As far as history is concerned ,when I lived near there it was more of an economic thing than a race thing. In fact it was very diverse area - black, white, Hispanic, Asian and even Arab. In fact I dated an Algerian who lived at 6th and Dickinson in late summer of '92. I believe alot of the sketch was caused by the opening of the notorius Southwark housing project which consisted of three ugly nasty looking hi-rise buildings which were closed and torn down in recent years. These were located at 4th and Washington and the sketchiness extended as far south as Oregon Ave.The only thing I could tell you is to get proactive about improving your area. Go to town watch meetings in other neighborhoods and start asking them questions about changing your area for the better. It can start with one caring citizen to get the ball rolling.I hope this helps you somewhat. By the way , I am surprised that there has been no large scale improvement in your neighborhood especially with the rest of the east side of Broad St. being decent areas and most of those projects now finally gone. I wish you the best of luck.

[solibs]

To the OP - i looked at your map again and it doesn't look like you changed anything.

To Christina - most ethnic neighborhoods in Philadelphia grow along the trolley lines that feed (mostly buses now) into center city. That "Dickinson Narrows" corridor was a Jewish neighborhood that run from Pine St. down 5th & 6th to around Snyder Ave. In the 50's and 60's the Jewish community moved, en masse, to the suburbs with many of them heading for Cherry Hill. The projects at 5th & Washington certainly didn't help things. Anyway, with so many places on the market at the same time rents were cheap. At first it was blacks and puerto ricans. Later it was cambodians. These days it's Nepalese. As you know, that area (from 4th to 8th) is still incredibly diverse - white, black, latino, east asian, south asian and arab.

Interestingly enough, on the trolley line topic, from 6th St. the Cambodians hopped on the 47 bus and now have a large community around 3rd & the Boulevard. They also got on the 29 and are in large numbers around 16th & Tasker. The 37 took them out to Southwest where their growing community just built a new Buddhist Temple.

[PennKid]

I'm glad that someone actually took the time to do this- I'm very impressed that the OP was able to highlight several nuances about South Philly that most people overlook- like the fact that there are very nice areas west of Broad, and south of snyder, or that in Grays Ferry, there are actually a couple nice blocks in the "Southbrook Park" area- which is represented by that isolate patch of green.

I agree with virtually all the color designations- I hope that overlooked areas like Pennsport, Whitman, Lower Moyamensing, or West Passyunk get the attention they deserve.

As for the Dickinson Narrows question, the last two posters hit the nail on the head when they mention its history as an old Jewish community- when one compares the fate of the post-war Jewish communities in North Philadelphia and West Philadelphia with that of, say, the Polish community in Port Richmond or the Irish in Fishtown, you'll notice that the Jewish communities were generally much shorter-lived, as Jewish families got their children educated and moved out to the suburbs rapidly, while many of the city's white working classes remained. This is exactly what happened to Dickinson Narrows- as a matter of fact, there is actually a mural somewhere right near Mifflin Square celebrating the Jewish history of the place, and at least one of the Buddhist Temples used to be a synagogue.

To be honest, however, I still don't think the area is as bad as ms. christina puts it; it is simply a bit overwhelming for someone who is new to the area. Although it's the worst area east of Broad, that's not saying much, considering that's its overwhelmingly the safer side. I think the neighborhood could certainly come alive some time soon- one just has to look past the apathy and the occasional trash heap.

[solibs]

Originally Posted by PennKid

Although it's the worst area east of Broad, that's not saying much, considering that's its overwhelmingly the safer side.

Last time I looked into it (last year) that wasn't true and I doubt it's true this year either.

People like to attribute a lot more crime to Point Breeze than actually happens and I suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that it's majority african-american.

[Marius Pontmercy]

I never thought Point Breeze was ever as bad as some of the bombed out neighborhoods in North or West Philly. You just can't compare them. Yeah, they're relatively bad to the rest of South Philly, but not as bad as some other places I can think of certainly.

[smiley0221]

I live in a region of your map that is not colored at all -Mifflin between 15th and 16th. What does that mean?

[Young Herman]

I walked from 12th and Snyder Ave to 28th and Snyder Ave yesterday and the entire street is a complete ghetto now save a few blocks from 11th to 13th. I was also in Grays Ferry where I grew up yesterday and the area North of Morris Street is a filthy ghetto. The streets of Bailey and Taney look downright scary!

[otters21]

Originally Posted by Young Herman

I walked from 12th and Snyder Ave to 28th and Snyder Ave yesterday and the entire street is a complete ghetto now save a few blocks from 11th to 13th. I was also in Grays Ferry where I grew up yesterday and the area North of Morris Street is a filthy ghetto. The streets of Bailey and Taney look downright scary!

You are right in someways but Snyder Ave. is not completely ghetto. Front to 4th St.is okay; 4th to about 8th or 9th Sts. are pretty sketchy ( I agree with you about that and that has been that way since the 1960s or longer). West of that to about 13th St. is not too bad but after 13th to Broad it can get dicey due to South Philadelphia High School. West of Broad to about 17th or 18th Sts. where Passyunk Ave. crosses is passable. From there until about 22st St. ,the sketch starts up again and after that it does become downright ghetto. You have hit it on the nail about Taney and Bailey Sts. As far back as 1980 I have seen the beginning of decline on those blocks and the teardowns started not too far after. So IMO the color scheme of safety on Snyder Ave. should go as followed: east of 4th St. - green; 4th to about 8th or 9th Sts. - orange; west of that to 13th St. - yellow ; !3th St. to about Broad -orange because of the high school ; Broad to about 17th and 18th Sts. to where Passyunk Ave. crosses - yellow once again : from there until about 22nd St. - orange ; and from there on out- red.

[Young Herman]

Originally Posted by otters21

You are right in someways but Snyder Ave. is not completely ghetto. Front to 4th St.is okay; 4th to about 8th or 9th Sts. are pretty sketchy ( I agree with you about that and that has been that way since the 1960s or longer). West of that to about 13th St. is not too bad but after 13th to Broad it can get dicey due to South Philadelphia High School. West of Broad to about 17th or 18th Sts. where Passyunk Ave. crosses is passable. From there until about 22st St. ,the sketch starts up again and after that it does become downright ghetto. You have hit it on the nail about Taney and Bailey Sts. As far back as 1980 I have seen the beginning of decline on those blocks and the teardowns started not too far after. So IMO the color scheme of safety on Snyder Ave. should go as followed: east of 4th St. - green; 4th to about 8th or 9th Sts. - orange; west of that to 13th St. - yellow ; !3th St. to about Broad -orange because of the high school ; Broad to about 17th and 18th Sts. to where Passyunk Ave. crosses - yellow once again : from there until about 22nd St. - orange ; and from there on out- red.

I consider Snyder from South Philly High to about 17th to be a bit ghetto, but is more of a nuisance area then dangerous. Broad and Snyder is especially like that, I don't expect to get mugged or anything there, but there are loads of people begging and trying to hustle. All those little streets off of Snyder from 17th to the 20's are terrible now days. Bailey and Taney in Grays Ferry started going bad in the early to mid 90's. I left Grays Ferry in 1999 and they were just about finished by then.

[GraysFerryB4]

I'm a former GF guy too. Friends of mine don't believe that it was one of the best working class neighborhoods in the city. Sports at the parks every night, families with baby coaches socializing, leagues for kids of all ages. This was fairly solid until the early mid 90's when the plague of Section 8 came and destoyed it. The early days of Section 8 was so under supervised that low lifes could just apply, fill houses with filthy neighbors, destroy them and simply move one block to the next one. Most people got out in a hurry and the remnants are what is GF now. Sad. The city owes that neighborhood for its lax mishandleing of the program. I often wonder why my 83 year old parents can still live there, decorate, hose down their sidewalks, clean their fronts and be "good neighbors" while 20 somethings put trash and diapers out when they feel like it, have kids they don't want/ can't afford, play loud music with open doors and still be looked at as "victims of poverty".