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[quote=sisyphus89;1402668 you can not explain free will.[/QUOTE]
Ah, but dear Sisyphus, as you should well know, (given your screen name!) Camus certainly tried!
It is about how we live. According to Camus, free will raises the question of the nature of the "absurd" conflict that mankind finds himself in. Interestingly enough, however, Camus indicates that the dilemma is only "absurd" so long as one is consciously aware of it...
What I like about Camus, (and the Myth of Sisyphus) is that both profess that there are no clear cut answers...
Ah, but dear Sisyphus, as you should well know, (given your screen name!) Camus certainly tried!
It is about how we live. According to Camus, free will raises the question of the nature of the "absurd" conflict that mankind finds himself in. Interestingly enough, however, Camus indicates that the dilemma is only "absurd" so long as one is consciously aware of it...
What I like about Camus, (and the Myth of Sisyphus) is that both profess that there are no clear cut answers...
Take gentle care
You caught me.
I was not sure how many people will recognize "Sisyphus" but you did.
Camus tried to make a case for the tragic hero who keeps going in spite of the absurd human condition but I'm not sure if that is possible for ordinary people like me. He himself commit suicide.
The urgency or importance of "Free Will" problem is that everything we do and our moral and political judgments are based on the assumption of "Free Will".
If we can not make sense how "Free Will" is possible, then we have to have a complete restructuring of our moral and political system.
For example, how you justify "punishing" people if those actions are not from Free Will.
I draw similarities between the concept of predeterminism (everything is predictable and is predicated on everything preceding it) and Newtonian physics.
This, our 'world' in the US, is a workable system, to a certain point.
After that point is reached, the quantum world with all of the ajacent questions opens up a new world with new laws.
Things are not as they seem. There is little predictability. There are multiple universes, and perhaps multiple 'us'.
Civilization only functions when the majority of people are predictable. Business calls people 'resources', along with other office equipment.
Laws are enforceable because most people choose to obey them.
THis is why suicide bombers are so hard to deal with. Before now, it was almost unthinkable by our military that so many people would espouse a cause that would spur them to willfully give their own lives.
Most people live their lives on 'autopilot', doing the same things, day by day. If we/they programmed their brains, growing up, with good healthy safe thoughts they have a greater likelihood of living good healthy safe lives.
AT least, so it has been in the past, in the US.
People who think outside the box are often involved in art or scientific research or higher mathematics or philosophy - perhaps they take drugs, too.
They experiment with consciousness and reality.
They tend to be less predictable.
There are not a lot of good paying jobs requiring these qualities, so most of our training is for the more routine world of the mind.
I think what we call sin is sometimes a reaction to boredom and is often born of ignorance.
People require challenges to grow, something that pulls them outside of their comfortable world and requires them to stretch their being.
I think our institutions sometimes fill minds with data/dogma, but fail to stimulate the human spirit to reach outside of itself to touch/become something greater.
Our minds are not buckets to be filled, but tools for the expansion of awareness.
Camus tried to make a case for the tragic hero who keeps going in spite of the absurd human condition but I'm not sure if that is possible for ordinary people like me. He himself commit suicide. .
Ah, Sisyphus, but is IS! (Possible for "ordinary people" like you and I!)
According to Camus, the "absurd" does not by necessity entail suicide. It permits one to live one's life to the fullest. Remember what the three characteristics that Camus identified as aspects of the absurd are? Revolt, freedom and passion? We are free to think and choose, and to pursue a life that is rich in many things. And even though Camus, himself, would probably say that I am being absurd in attempting to reconcile what are seeming contradicitions, he himself, had a positive note:
"At the end of this tunnel of darkness...there is inevitably a light which we already perceive and for which we only have to fight to ensure its coming. All of us among the ruins are preparing a renaissance beyond the limits of nihilsim."
Hi,
I think we have free will on the other side of lives, before we are born. It is there that we have the free will to "chart" or make a "blueprint" of our lives to come. We choose almost but not all things, including who are parents are and when we will die(cross over). We must realize that the true reality is not here but over on the other side. This life is only a temporary school where we learn. We choose what to learn from the other side... Makes perfect sense to me...
Reticuli
I am wondering why we cannot learn our lessons over there, on the other side. Why the need to come here at all?
I agree with you, though. I had often wondered why I am so much a stranger to my parents. How was I ever born into that household. I am sure others have wondered the same thing, that such different people with different tastes and priorities could be 'forced' together.
It is only now, later, that I can see some of my life in perspective, and how I learned from this family and how they learned from me. Through our conflicts. It wasn't always pretty, but it was some sort of progress.
We often learn the most through our difficulties. Some people with really easy lives lack character. Sometimes, though, if we are not able to gain wisdom and understanding through observation, we are forced to live through conflict.
Life tends to give us what we need and not what we want.
You sound as though you might believe in reincarnation. I am thinking that a hard life makes a person tough. You learn, but you also can build up a callous. Reincarnation seems like the opportunity to drop off that hardness, to be able to love again.
Either my "will" is "free" or it's what? Enslaved?
Either I'm a pre-programmed robot, or I'm not. If pre-programmed, who or what programmed my?
If not pre-programmed, then I have choices.
Either way, one thing I do know, I'm a willfull son of gun.
I am a Christian who believes we have limited free will. We are free to make whatever choices we want, but no will is ever truly free from outside influence, IMO. I believe that God is truly in control.
Yes I believe in reincarnation, I am one who studies alot about spiritual beliefs from all over. And the evidence, IF you study it, is immense.
I used to be a born again Christian so I truly understand where that community of believers is coming from... Alot of nice people there but, as with any religion, there are problems.
Unless one is open and willing to study, with an open mind and heart, ANY and ALL religious and spiritual views, then one cannot claim to know the truth about anything related to spirituality. IMHO of course.
I personally am continuing to learn as we all are, so no offense to any. We are in school when we are in life. We choose to come to this school because, when faced with all this negativity such as this planet has, our souls grow by leaps and bounds. Only the courageous choose to take on so much when they come here.
God is experiencing thru us. God, being spirit, cannot experience everything by himself/herself so He/She created us to be His/Her "fingers" if you will. Each of us experiences life differently and is sending this data back to our creator for Him/Her to experience.
Father God has enough on His plate with simply holding the Universe together. Since we are part of God, we are God's "fingers" in a sense.
Love and Light,
Reticuli
I have often thought that, being the soul is the real 'you' and so important, why people think a religion is the right one just because the house of worship is within commuting distance from their home, or because they are born into a country where one religion or another predominates.
I also think the grass usually looks greener on the other side, and in any country the worst of the native religion is seen and only the best of the minority religions is heard of. I remember reading how in Tibet monks would go from door to door, collecting what a tithe, sum determined by them, from every household. Such a system of so many monks was expensive.
Also, people from countries in which there are repressive dictatorships or strong arm Presidents and a police or military against which there is no appeal - they tend to gravitate to repressive religions, with lots of rules and regulations and threats. So, you can sometimes predict where the converts of a religion will come from by looking at the government.
But, just as those young in body require a mommy and daddy and all those rules which at the time did not often appear to make sense, perhaps those young in spirit require such religions to give them security in the spiritual realm. The problems arise when they try to run things for everyone else.
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We have free will on the other side
Reincarnation
