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Old 01-29-2012, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 10,798,309 times
Reputation: 7242

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So at work today, I was on my break sitting there pondering a recent event in my life between myself and another party, that clearly showed a lack of morality on their part........and then it hit me like a freight train......it had never been so clear to me that "morality" is not and can not be used as an argument for a God. It was truly a Eureka moment for me.

The morality arguemnt fails on one simplistic point....... not everyone has morals. If morals were proof of God, wouldn't it stand to reason that everyone would be born with them? Even watching your late local news should be clear proof that not everyone has morals.

Morality Agrument.....
Fail.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:53 PM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,486 posts, read 4,479,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
So at work today, I was on my break sitting there pondering a recent event in my life between myself and another party, that clearly showed a lack of morality on their part........and then it hit me like a freight train......it had never been so clear to me that "morality" is not and can not be used as an argument for a God. It was truly a Eureka moment for me.

The morality arguemnt fails on one simplistic point....... not everyone has morals. If morals were proof of God, wouldn't it stand to reason that everyone would be born with them? Even watching your late local news should be clear proof that not everyone has morals.

Morality Agrument.....
Fail.

Thoughts?
When you're right, you're right!

Some of the most moral people i've ever known were not religious. They had a strong moral compass and good parents who taught them to do the right thing.
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:53 PM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,693,441 times
Reputation: 1191
I tend to believe in both determinism and free will.
We are born under certain circumstances - with certain morals dictated by our societies, families and other groups. Yet, we have various options within those circumstances to choose from. I believe that decisions (both "moral or immoral") are made based on a certain level of awareness.

The more aware, the more the decisions will be made in light of what is best not just for oneself but also those who are inter-related with that person.
A well-rounded education (socially, intellectually, emotionally etc.) is very important!
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,886 posts, read 6,209,806 times
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God doesn't have morals. Why should people have them?
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Old 01-29-2012, 09:05 PM
 
40,141 posts, read 26,779,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
So at work today, I was on my break sitting there pondering a recent event in my life between myself and another party, that clearly showed a lack of morality on their part........and then it hit me like a freight train......it had never been so clear to me that "morality" is not and can not be used as an argument for a God. It was truly a Eureka moment for me.
The morality arguemnt fails on one simplistic point....... not everyone has morals. If morals were proof of God, wouldn't it stand to reason that everyone would be born with them? Even watching your late local news should be clear proof that not everyone has morals.
Morality Agrument.....
Fail.
Thoughts?
This is the kind of muddy thinking and lack of specificity that typically attends religious fundamentalist postings . . . shame on you Whipper. Are you asking an existential question about the concept of morality . . . or are you just bemoaning the fact that people do not seem to adhere to any morality very consistently?
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Old 01-29-2012, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 10,798,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
I tend to believe in both determinism and free will.
We are born under certain circumstances - with certain morals dictated by our societies, families and other groups. !
So you agree that morals are not God given but are a product of ones enviroment? i.e.how one was raised? than how can you use morality as an argument for God?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This is the kind of muddy thinking and lack of specificity that typically attends religious fundamentalist postings . . . shame on you Whipper. Are you asking an existential question about the concept of morality . . . or are you just bemoaning the fact that people do not seem to adhere to any morality very consistently?
What I am saying is that people say the fact the morals exist is proof there is a god. If that were the case, wouldn't we all have morals, and notonly morals, but the same morals? The fact that not everyone has morals is proof that morality can't be attributed to any God.
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Old 01-29-2012, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,724,376 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
So at work today, I was on my break sitting there pondering a recent event in my life between myself and another party, that clearly showed a lack of morality on their part........and then it hit me like a freight train......it had never been so clear to me that "morality" is not and can not be used as an argument for a God. It was truly a Eureka moment for me.

The morality arguemnt fails on one simplistic point....... not everyone has morals. If morals were proof of God, wouldn't it stand to reason that everyone would be born with them? Even watching your late local news should be clear proof that not everyone has morals.

Morality Agrument.....
Fail.

Thoughts?
I do tend to see high morals among some humans as a sign. If not for "God" (per-se), then perhaps a better understanding that we are "god-like" in that by our compassion (or lack thereof) we determine the fate (to some degree) of those we come into contact with/have influence over.

Capiche?
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:07 PM
 
40,141 posts, read 26,779,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
So you agree that morals are not God given but are a product of ones enviroment? i.e.how one was raised? than how can you use morality as an argument for God?
What I am saying is that people say the fact the morals exist is proof there is a god. If that were the case, wouldn't we all have morals, and notonly morals, but the same morals? The fact that not everyone has morals is proof that morality can't be attributed to any God.
You seem to have the morality/God relationship back-to-front, Whipper. It is an existential issue. IF God does NOT exist . . . neither does morality. If morality exists . . . then so does God. Morality is the gauge against which our actions are measured for their impact on the purpose of OUR existence. If there is no God then there is no purpose for the existence of humanity . . . and there is no morality. IF God exists then there IS a purpose for the existence of humanity . . . and there is morality. Cosmic accidents have no purpose for existing . . . hence no morality. All talk of human-derived purposes are specious and arbitrary . . . as would be any morality based on them.
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Old 01-29-2012, 10:13 PM
 
1,644 posts, read 1,568,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You seem to have the morality/God relationship back-to-front, Whipper. It is an existential issue. IF God does NOT exist . . . neither does morality. If morality exists . . . then so does God. Morality is the gauge against which our actions are measured for their impact on the purpose of OUR existence. If there is no God then there is no purpose for the existence of humanity . . . and there is no morality. IF God exists then there IS a purpose for the existence of humanity . . . and there is morality. Cosmic accidents have no purpose for existing . . . hence no morality. All talk of human-derived purposes are specious and arbitrary . . . as would be any morality based on them.
Wow. I'm going to save that to a notepad document. Very well said.
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,340,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Moderator cut: orphaned
Not nonsense. Common sense. Without a force of either good or evil in the universe, it would be impossible to tell one from the other in any objective way, and human morality could only be based upon what the majority believes to be right or wrong at the time. It would be constantly changing as the human condition changed, and no action could be determined universally right or wrong.

To the OP:

The fact that free-will has allowed some people to reject a moral code does not mean that there is not one. Furthermore, if there is no objective morality, then you have no footing on which to call your arch-enemy's actions wrong at all.

Last edited by june 7th; 02-01-2012 at 12:14 PM..
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