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Old 10-18-2012, 06:55 PM
sun
 
Location: Central Connecticut
683 posts, read 1,962,620 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth-Kaunda View Post
why does God have to be good anyway?

surely that is only because the creators of the religions prefer the positive societal impact of a benevolent figure.

but who is to say that God is not evil?
God Good!
God is good because the word "good" contains "god" along with an extra "o".

See? Good is God with an extra O.
And God cannot be separated from Good!
And God is Good because He is the giver of life.
Life is just like the extra "O" which is Good!

God is not evil because the word evil does not contain God.
Evil cannot contain God in word or in deed.
Because God is pure, and God is light.
And evil is the absence of God.
Where God exists there is no evil, there is only God.
Good God!
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Old 12-21-2012, 06:19 PM
 
12,690 posts, read 9,923,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees1212 View Post
Not really sure what you are trying to say but as a possible objection to your basic premise, consider the ways in which a human body is so perfectly constructed to carry out so many simple bodily functions.
Lower back bones in very stressed position, with sharp curve at base of spine, causing back pain in many...
Post-menopausal women losing a dangerous amount of bone density...
Sinuses with small openings prone to being infected...
Narrow coronary arteries prone to becoming blocked...
Older men having problems urinating due to the anatomy of the prostate gland and its enlargement with age...
Eyes commonly having poor acuity without optical aid...
Childbirth occurring through a bone with an opening barely large enough, instead of some other way, resulting in frequent complications...

Brains prone to drug addictions...
And last but not least, shutting down all functions permanently after just 10 minutes with no oxygen...

Not what I call perfect construction, exactly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees1212 View Post

To extend this argument further, think about the makeup of the universe and how Earth has the ideal conditions to support life.
Oh, really? Large portions uninhabitable, limited food supply, etc.

And in the middle of large continents such as North America and Eurasia, humans cannot survive the winter without heating, shelter or clothing above approximately 35 degrees latitude.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankees1212 View Post
One can argue that these ideals had to be the work of a divine figure and this objection is certainly intuitive.
By the way, I'm agnostic so I don't necessarily believe that the ideas above PROVE the existence of a God.
See above.

Last edited by ncole1; 12-21-2012 at 07:05 PM..
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,082,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Lower back bones in very stressed position, with sharp curve at base of spine, causing back pain in many...
Post-menopausal women losing a dangerous amount of bone density...
Sinuses with small openings prone to being infected...
Narrow coronary arteries prone to becoming blocked...
Older men having problems urinating due to the anatomy of the prostate gland and its enlargement with age...
Eyes commonly having poor acuity without optical aid...
Childbirth occurring through a bone with an opening barely large enough, instead of some other way, resulting in frequent complications...

Brains prone to drug addictions...
And last but not least, shutting down all functions permanently after just 10 minutes with no oxygen...

Not what I call perfect construction, exactly.
Aside from the fact that a living organism must of necessity age and die, in order to make space for the offspring, many of the items you mentioned were much more suitable before man stood erect, and the organs that had evolved to be prone have not yet caught up on the evolutionary scale. Hemorrhoids and inguinal hernias would fall into that category. Also, eyes degrade much more rapidly with close work, they did not evolve to look at books and newspapers for many hours at a time.

The childbirth complications you mention arise from mothers being much better nourished than their ancestors, who did not need to evolve a birth canal capable of delivering 8-pound babies. Given time, a body evolves a much more perfect system than any God could have given it, unless God had anticipated the frequent necessity for a species to migrate to a new habitat or environment, or otherwise radically change its habits.

Anthropologists have reported primitive tribes in which typical infants were 4-5 pounds, but when contact with the outside world significantly improved their diet, they started growing fetuses of double that weight, with a very high maternal mortality rate as a result.

The presumption that God would have created all organisms to live in the environment that prevailed at the time of creation, is an excellent argument against the existence of God, for we now know that a species must adapt its physical structure to changing conditions in order to survive. All species designed by God without that capability to evolve would have certainly become extinct by now.

Last edited by jtur88; 12-21-2012 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Venice Italy
1,027 posts, read 1,095,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The presumption that God would have created all organisms to live in the environment that prevailed at the time of creation, is an excellent argument against the existence of God, for we now know that a species must adapt its physical structure to changing conditions in order to survive. All species designed by God without that capability to evolve would have certainly become extinct by now.



Not only living organisms, even the universe if not governed by unknown forces would collapse in on itself, and this is a kind of adaption
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:51 PM
 
Location: The Pacific Northwest
283 posts, read 433,267 times
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But Faith and Reason CAN and DO converge. And they don't necessarily have to be distinct from one another.

Quick example for ya:

A basic grasp of particle physics tells us that the atom is 90% open space. The electrons orbiting the super-dense nucleus of protons and nuetrons are so far away, that if you were to enlarge the nucleus to, say, a football's size, the electron cloud would be about as far away as the outer walls of the Louisiana Superdome, if that football were laying inside on the field at the 50-yard line.
So if an atom, the basic building blocks of matter--we won't get into quarks here--are mostly empty, than so is that floor you walk on or that chair you sit on.
Yet you walk or sit anyway, even while knowing this.
You have Faith you won't fall through. Yet, you are also using reason.
You have faith that the medicine your doc prescribed you aren't poison. But this is also a reasonable action.
You have faith that the food you buy at the supermarket isn't tainted.
Many great men of science has both Faith and Reason.
My Faith in God was thrust onto me unwanted. I was an agnostic for thrity years; an egregious sinner.
But He interacted in my life so many times that it was no longer reasonable for me to believe He wasn't calling at men. I even had a physician tell me, "Can't you see? God is screaming at you!"
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:20 PM
 
10,469 posts, read 15,475,867 times
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Says who it is not? I had it all my life. Not "God" you mean, but "Superior being".
Everyone has that innate feeling of belonging to something Bigger and Better. Everyone. Not everyone preserved it through life, and many shut it down and turned off, as it is oh so much unpleasant to listen to.
Let me surprise you. You ever listen to your voice of conscience? If you still have it? That's your personal deity speaking to you. Call it, in commonly accepted terms, Holy Spirit.
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,191 posts, read 9,043,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Everyone has that innate feeling of belonging to something Bigger and Better. Everyone.
Everyone experiences the alienation of the human condition, and a corresponding need to be a part of something outside themselves -- or, if you will, something "bigger" than themselves. For me, that is to be present for and loving and loyal to my family and friends, and perhaps to contribute in some small way to the benefit of the community at large. If you have a need to apply the label "god" to that, have at it. I think though that once you make "something larger than yourself" so abstract and distant that you turn it into an object of longing, veneration and worship, it becomes dysfunctional.
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Old 12-23-2012, 07:19 AM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,226,706 times
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Well every society, or almost every native society, believes in divine spirits, creator beings.etc so I would guess that yes, spirituality/religion and believe in God/gods is as intuitive as language.etc, or at least developed at some point in all societies.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,082,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miticoman View Post
Not only living organisms, even the universe if not governed by unknown forces would collapse in on itself, and this is a kind of adaption
Of course there are unknown forces, but that is not proof nor even evidence nor even a suggestion that the Unknown Forces have a master plan to reward humans with eternal life for worshiping them.

This thread is about a specific and defined God with a capital G, who behaves according to the Christian Bible account, not an indifferent unknown force.
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Venice Italy
1,027 posts, read 1,095,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post

This thread is about a specific and defined God with a capital G, who behaves according to the Christian Bible account, not an indifferent unknown force.




Christianity is a complicated religion in it's order, so relatively young, the human logic suggests that a complex subject is not intuitive
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