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Old 12-15-2012, 09:00 PM
Location: earth?
7,288 posts, read 10,810,812 times
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Originally Posted by GrammasCabin View Post
In the 50's my mother became irratic, dangerous, was diagnosed schitzophrenic and, on the word of relatives before a court , was committed to a mental hospital until she was considered stable and safe. She'd be fine for a while then go off the deep end again. Once again a relative would explain her behavior to the judge - back in the hospital. no choice, no questions asked

Now there are no health-care dollars or facilities to care for mentally ill, they are just thrown out for the rest of us to deal with. To say nothing of the monster-creating synthetic drugs being created.
Under Reagan's reign in California, many mental "institutions" were closed, never again to re-open . . . I assume most of the people turned out on the streets are dead or dying, as we speak.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:12 PM
1,050 posts, read 2,992,911 times
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Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Our country's philosophy has changed more and more. It has become less community oriented and more self-absorbed. We are desensitized to everything because of constant media exposure.
And, because we're all too busy living in a digital world (see everyone glued to their iphones) instead of interacting face-to-face, people have become less real to us...so their lives are of less consequence to us.

I couldn't agree more. We may hear of chairitable acts such as helping with Hurricane victims, but the simple act of talking to your next door neighbor is just not happening any longer. No one is reaching out to one another. I am experiencing this as a new widow. Friends even seem too busy to call just to say hello. This is a lonely time of year for so many people and just a friendly hello to a stranger passing by will raise that person's spirit. If we could see those who are hurting we may prevent someone going over the edge as we have seen in the last couple of days.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:14 PM
Location: Boca Raton, FL
5,136 posts, read 8,658,042 times
Reputation: 6103
Smile So Senseless

This happened in a town know for its community, for its sense of serenity and peacefulness and true family neighborhoods. Yet, it still happened. Why?

I grew up in the l960's and 1970's, graduating high school in the 1970's. Things were changing but I did not know one kid on medicine. (Some kids smoked pot).

When I had my children and one of my children was diagnosed with a learning disability, the school wanted me to put him on Ritalin. After doing some research, I was "no way" - he is 23 now and has worked through his disabilities, just matured and learned.

I don't what the answer is. It sounds like his parents tried to engage him in activities but maybe he was autistic. The poor families. We need to reach out to each other and really be there for each other.

We really do.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:03 AM
Status: "We The North" (set 4 days ago)
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,555 posts, read 13,293,175 times
Reputation: 11623
Too many Americans see themselves as starring in a John Wayne movie.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:11 AM
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I think it is result of a the following socio cultural trends prior commentors have covered most of them so I'll summarize:

1) less and less natural affection toward offspring as parents treat children as 'equals' to be their 'friends', token /trophies, or a potential benefit. Couple this with loss of community and shared real face time socialization (in todays' rat race world most people pursue) and many of the border line and mental ill candidates shift to the shadows.

2) The drugs (prescription & otherwise). A heavily medicated mindset (and nation for that matter) which is bombarded via various media to sell people a magic 'pill' to fix what is often a result of poor living habits (cause its easier) and amplifying a mental illness with disproportionate deleterious side effects.

3) The saturation of violence across all media forms. Hollywood targets majority of movies to a 13-25 yo demographic, and the gaming entertainment industry make billions in games with violence and gore as 'entertainment'. This volume of conditioning desensitizes youth to fellow humans. And most often leads to less actual communication and more 'white noise' as substitute for actual relationships. In many ways it is sedation by emulation.

4) To the question as to why schools seem to be the preferred venue - whether adults or teens as perps - it is likely because most unresolved conflicts the perpetrators have internalized, originated there, or they associate them as being caused from 'school' situations.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:14 AM
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There is a little boy I know quite well (we'll call him Brian). He's had temper issues since he was about 7 years old. He's now 10. His parents recently divorced. He's very angry. The other day a kid at school called him fat. He was very upset. After school, he paced up and down and said "I'm going to kill him" over and over. A friend calmed him down and explained that he couldn't say things like that and gave him alternatives (talking to the teacher, etc.) Still, every time Brian is upset, he flies off the handle and says horrible things. His parents know this. Brian also is heavily into video games. His grandmother has voiced concern about the violence of these games and the fact that he has no time limits - he spends a good part of his day on these games. His dad likes to take him shooting to the range. He has weapons in the home (although locked in a gun cabinet). But, his son knows where they are.

His parents are nice people. I've mentioned to them that the son needs therapy and that he has anger issues he can't seem to manage on his own. The parents do not want to believe anything is seriously wrong with their son. They are busy trying to piece their lives together after their divorce. The little attention they give their son focuses on putting him in advanced classes, they get him tutoring to help him keep up. Brian gets frustrated. I've gently told them that at his young age it may be better to focus on his social development (where in my opinion, he is seriously lacking).

I hope Brian never does anything to hurt anyone. If you spend enough time with him, he can be a sweet kid. I don't think he'll make for a nice adult, but who knows, he could change.

The issue is that in the U.S. we value individualism and the freedom to do things our way. No one can do anything about Brian. If his dad wants to take him to the shooting range, he is in his right to do so. It's a horrible idea to do this with a kid who has anger issues and is enticed w/violent video games, but you can't force someone to agree with you.

Even on this forum, I've seen people bring up a topic of concern and one of the most common pieces of advice is: "mind your own business." So if we recognize traits in someone (adult or child) that raise a red flag, most people will be told to mind their own business.

We can say: society should be more prepared to recognize these traits in people and help them seek treatment. It's not that we don't have professionals to help. We do. But we can't force anyone to seek help.

If we look at the Batman shooter, he was undergoing therapy. There was obviously a problem. He'd been locked off campus, so clearly there were many people who recognized how troubled he was.

But in a society that values freedom, we can't just lock someone up. It doesn't have to be black and white - we don't have to go back to the barbaric mental institutions of times past. There can be institutions that are more like rehab. People may say: who's going to pay for it? But even if we were to solve that problem, you still would have a hard time getting people to sign up. And we can't force anyone in this country to do anything.

Our individual freedom does not discriminate: it gives free reign to the good, but also to the bad.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:00 AM
Location: Beverly, Mass
940 posts, read 1,625,569 times
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I think the kids who do this are an example of the culmination of all the negative forces in society coming together and exploding. But when they act out - these tragedies tend to make people more grounded, humble and to realize what really matters in life. So ironically it makes society better, and brings it back to the basics. I am sure it will bring that little town closer together, I am sure it will bring all the families there closer together. I am sure everyone who saw it on TV will hug their kids harder and give them more attention. I am sure more light will be brought to the harm of violent video games, movies and the need for being more involved in your communities and for people to care more about each other.

In the end everything in the universe balances out. When thing go wrong, they have consequences and then things get corrected or brought back in balance. If nothing changes it will keep happening until changes are made.

May be this is God's only way to reach deep inside our souls. In a way the little kids are a sacrifice and is the rock bottom that will not go unnoticed and will bring some people to their senses.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:25 AM
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,025,881 times
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One of the pundits in the TV carpetbombing said that at any given time, about 25% of all Americans are suffering from some form of psychological disorder. Another one, a seasoned forensic psychiatrist, told Geraldo last night that America gets a D- for psychiatric, judicial and social recognition of psychological disorders and intervention, which is virtually non-existent. He repeated it again -- Dee Minus. (I always go to Fox News at times like this, because they let people on the air who shoot from the hip and tell tales out of school.)

Philosophy among the sane is a logical rational discipline, but needs to be evaluated in this case among the insane, which is an unaddressed quarter of the national population, who are not only left to run amok, but are actually encouraged by their highly influential enablers.

Last edited by jtur88; 12-16-2012 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:50 AM
5,362 posts, read 6,490,971 times
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I would just disagree with your premise about this increase in such events being in America. Nope. Norway and England shootings come right off the top of my head. And if you did a % of population it might not be much different in shootings per population.

Different societies, different countries, different belief systems. But similar outcomes.

Maybe the world has become coarsened and accepting of violent and sexualized life/media/etc. That we seek to focus on treating people with medications rather than in residence settings. That somehow people have decided they have a right to act upon their anger/feelings/frustration/etc. And lastly there are some few who are soulless.

I just wish we could go back to 1950s or 1960s times of community, family, God and order. Less mobility so people knew each other in a community and watched out for each other and knew where the problems were. for good or bad.

But then we had Richard Specht, shootings from University of Texas at Austin, tower. etc. So this evil nature has long been with human kind.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:47 PM
Location: Coastal New Jersey
55,578 posts, read 54,188,638 times
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Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Too many Americans see themselves as starring in a John Wayne movie.
I doubt most living Americans have ever SEEN a John Wayne movie and would get your reference.
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