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Old 04-20-2013, 03:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ministers View Post
Well said, I do not believe apes are 100% comparable to humans though due to their lack of the ability to reason.
Actually, Chimps and Bonobos have shown to have quite good reasoning skills when it comes to solving tasks in the lab.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:50 AM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ministers View Post
You can only say "I'm not going to believe in demons because I don't want to". People kill all the time, who like you and me have a brain and a heart. This is why I titled this "the origins of evil". People like yourself make bold statements that our senses do not even back up. The scriptures were explaining these things long before you and your opinions were born and explaining more accurately than YOU. It is an absolute waste to argue with a person who says (looking at this world, how it is, how its run) who would turn around and say "there's no such thing as demons" OK, who's bright idea was it to hang those southern blacks from trees? what Sherlock came up with the idea to put those jews in those stoves? racism? murder? rape? porn? the book of Enoch explains the origin of things and my observation in comparing the world to it, it makes you look like a fool.


Humans cannot even cure cancer, so I know they do not even have the brain capacity to devise such evil things on their own. John Dee, the alchemist to Queen Elizabeth 1 learned the grimoires which have been kept secret from most for quite some time. Even John Dee would disagree with you, because in the grimoires he learned many strategies and technological things from.... DEMONS I'm not going to go into everything on this possibly government monitored forum, I'll just end by saying, you are wrong there are demons, and their spirits are everywhere.
Actually, I would say Demons do not exist because we have no proof. Sadly, a book of myth, whether it is the old testament of the Bible you freely quote, or the Egyptian Book of the Dead, is still myth, written by ancients who understood little to nothing of the world around them. These superstitious people attributed everything to gods and demons and spirits because they knew nothing else. Fortunately we do today. I would recommend that you read Carl Jung's Man and His Symbols as well as Joseph Campbell's Power of Myth to see examples of this.

To answer your other questions, let me first point out that the source you mentioned, the Book of Enoch, is nothing more than sensational myth written by superstitious, primitive cultures. Explaining evil by claiming that fallen angels mated with human women is sensational, and probably sufficient for the primitives and uneducated. But it does not hold a candle to contemporary psychological theories. AS for genocide, murder, and the like, as was frequently endorsed by the group committing the atrocities, as was so well explained by Swack, there seems to be a relative excuse for an inherently evil act. As in to say "It's OK when I do it but not when YOU do it." Again, psychology offers a demonstrable and reproducible model by which selfishness, fear, egotism contribute to hatred, fear and anger. These despicable acts, everything from Hitler to Westboro Baptist church, are stemmed out of human fear, anger and egotism. No demon needed or wanted.

On a final note, You mentioned something about this being a monitored forum. I sense that there is some degree of paranoia at work in your psyche. I do not know if this is the case, but people who are often plagued by imaginary forces and beings frequently present with the paranoia that everyone from the government to the monsters to myself are out to harm them. I do not know if this is the case, but several of the posts you have made indicate that there is a strong possibility that this might be going on t with yourself. On a professional level, I would strongly suggest that you consider sitting down with a reputable and licensed psychologist who can help you with some of your issues in life. I say this not to degrade or judge you, but to help you, for your benefit as no one should suffer in life with unnecessary delusions and fears.
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:11 PM
 
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The noun form of "evil" gives some interesting insight. I'm referring to uses such as "a necessary evil" or "social evils." It means bad things, things we don't like. What's good is what we like, and what's evil is what we don't like. Murder is evil. Stealing is evil. Sexuality brings some perspective. In some cultures things like fornication, adultery, and homosexuality were evil. In some cultures, those are just things people do and they are not evil.

I believe all motivation is self-centered, and so what's considered evil is based on that. People don't want to be murdered or stolen from, and don't want to live in fear of those things. Sexuality, again, brings perspective. People don't want to deal with the complexity of sexuality, so it's seen as having a hint of evil, or a lot of potential for it, and many rules are placed around it.

Evil is what people don't like, and what society agrees we shouldn't like.

Note: I do believe in God and follow an essentially Christian religion, but I believe that everything, including religion, should be a starting point from which to expand the mind. My religion is not for the purpose of finding comfort and sense; it's for the purpose of interacting with the universe at a higher level. I despise the use of religion, or anything else, to destroy human potential.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:30 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Interesting topic. I have met evil people and they seem to have something in common. LIES.

Pretension and self righteousness, while selecting a scape goat - weather one person or a group of people, tend to be the hallmark of evil.

They are puffed up, yet are empty inside. Slow to find their own faults, yet quick to find them in others.

They believe their own lies and pretension.

All evil begins with a lie.
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Old 05-04-2013, 04:45 AM
 
12,543 posts, read 13,973,319 times
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Originally Posted by ministers View Post
All honest people see and know that evil exists. There is good and there is bad in the world. Based on the actions of many people, its obvious that there is an invisible force involved. Until someone gives a better explanation, I will believe that devils and demons exist.
Based on the actions of many people it's obvious that there is no invisible force involved, it is quite visible.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Hopewell Va.
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God created the force we call evil. And Willed it By His Good to be in directed opposition of Himself. Thus to create a powerful enough stimulus to provoke,and exercise the Goodness of His Will in His Righteous Judgment Against it in bringing evil to it's proper end,which is His Justice. Because God is a Righteous God of Judgment,and Justice.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DiscombobulateYa View Post
God created the force we call evil. And Willed it By His Good to be in directed opposition of Himself. Thus to create a powerful enough stimulus to provoke,and exercise the Goodness of His Will in His Righteous Judgment Against it in bringing evil to it's proper end,which is His Justice. Because God is a Righteous God of Judgment,and Justice.
Doesn't sound like the actions of a rational benevolent deity to me.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:28 AM
 
Location: The Big O
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Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
Doesn't sound like the actions of a rational benevolent deity to me.
When considering that this deity later killed himself to save us from his own wrath, rational is pretty much thrown out the window.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Hopewell Va.
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Originally Posted by orogenicman View Post
Doesn't sound like the actions of a rational benevolent deity to me.
Why not? Your looking at things from a man's point of view of what we in our fallen perceptions of what we think love, or judgment, or justice "ought" to be. But it's an infinity away from how GOD knows everything perfectly as it is. GOD is a REDEEMER. So HE created the world for a "redemptive" purpose. Which made evil,sin,and a fall NECESSARY.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:22 PM
 
3,583 posts, read 2,737,796 times
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Originally Posted by DiscombobulateYa View Post
Why not? Your looking at things from a man's point of view of what we in our fallen perceptions of what we think love, or judgment, or justice "ought" to be. But it's an infinity away from how GOD knows everything perfectly as it is. GOD is a REDEEMER. So HE created the world for a "redemptive" purpose. Which made evil,sin,and a fall NECESSARY.
"In the great classic, near eastern religions, man's life on earth is conceived as pain and suffering, and an inheritance of man's fall from grace (or Paradise Lost). According to these traditions, after man's expulsion from paradise, because of his disobedience to his "God", man alone could not recover his erstwhile innocence, even by striving to become a superhuman of humility, submission, and kindness, etc., but only by an intercession of a god, or God-man sacrifice, could man ever hope to regain paradise, in another world, a spirit world. This "New Jerusalem" is a concept which it contrary to the universal order of things which man's science has inductively gleaned from the study of nature, and as such, man's concept of morality is a product of his vision of the world and his hope to regain lost innocence.

Man's concept of morality has most recently been connected with what he conceived to be good (moral) and to be bad (immoral). Man's immorality has been equated with "sin" in his apriori understanding: this idea of morality has changed tremendously during his short tenure on earth. But contrarily, what is moral in Nature? And has this natural morality altered through time? "Truth" and "falsehood" are important ingredients in man's consideration of morality, but truth may be defined, in the sense of subjective truth with its definitions and criteria, differing from person to person, institution to institution, place to place, and time to time.

Man is essentially incapable of committing "sin" beyond the magnitude of the individual and collective sins, for the universe is independent of mankind's hopes, fears, aspirations, and indeed, complete understanding, past, present, and future. We may, however, admit a possible transient misdemeanor in that man's efforts have had some deleterious effects on the earth, and even possibly on parts of the solar system, but certainly this can have little or no effect on the galaxy or the universe at large. Further, the earth and sister planets and their satellites are almost insignificant parts of our almost insignificant star system in an almost insignificant galaxy, and in an almost infinitesimal speck in our universe (be it cosmos or chaos matters not).

Man's paradigm of morality is religion based on axiomatic reasoning, not subject to objective proof, personified as God, omnipotent throughout time and space. According to this paradigm, Man need not strive to obtain knowledge from any source other than religion for all is given by God; submission to his God will make all known which man needs in his life, and the rest on a "need to know basis" will be revealed to him in the after world. This is a lazy system for man need not strive to find truth, but it is handed down from above: All things are known to God and all man needs to do is apply and follow these laws which are made known by individual revelation from God to man.

Man's concept, and Nature's concept of reality and harmony differ in the highest order. Man has accused his a priori deities of duplicity, for men have always asked the question, "Why should good men suffer", and very often the misery of good men is far greater than that of those who do not conform to the highest criteria for goodness as defined by man's totomic customs and religions. This question has been asked and answers have been attempted ever since man realized his "selfness" and became an introspective creature.

In the last analysis of the morality of Nature, we see no evidence of mercy in the cosmos; its indifference extends to the lowest forms of life to that of man. The cries of humanity, whether the suffering is imposed by man upon himself or upon other men, or by natural laws operating independently of man, echo down the corridors of time and space and evoke no response from indifferent Nature. These anguished cries and pitiful prayers for help are merely cosmic background "noise" to which Nature must (not out of evil intent, spite, revenge, or punishment, but by necessity) turn a "deaf ear"; for were it not so, Nature itself would be destroyed by these same laws which Nature had ordained "in the beginning" (if there was one) and must continue to operate in perpetuity (if time and the universe are truly eternal), or there would be and ending to the cosmic laws: a true "twilight of the gods", and of cosmic harmony, Chaos never returning to Cosmos."

- James E. Conkin, Professor Emeritus, University of Louisville, 2002
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