City-Data Forum An execise in Logic (purpose, humans)
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05-15-2013, 04:30 PM
 56 posts, read 99,671 times Reputation: 61

Before you try your logic on us you should read what is scientific method. For example Wikipedia has article and then make it your benchmark point. And this where you start.

05-15-2013, 06:21 PM
 Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA 26,346 posts, read 82,794,063 times Reputation: 17500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Woodrow LI one can not prove anything is wrong. No statement no matter how ridiculous or obviously wrong can be proven wrong.
Bill Smith says the Lakers beat the Clippers last night when in fact the Clippers beat the Lakers.
You tell him the Clippers beat the Lakers.
He says Prove I'm Wrong.

You show him the newspaper results of the game before showing the Clippers indeed beat the Lakers. That proves he is wrong.

05-15-2013, 06:24 PM
 Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA 26,346 posts, read 82,794,063 times Reputation: 17500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Woodrow LI Except for mathematical operations one can not prove anything is wrong. No statement no matter how ridiculous or obviously wrong can be proven wrong.
I'm not even going to ask you to prove your assertion written above. I'll settle for a half way logical explanation.

05-15-2013, 07:27 PM
 Location: Logan Township, Minnesota 15,511 posts, read 13,219,704 times Reputation: 7407
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Charles Bill Smith says the Lakers beat the Clippers last night when in fact the Clippers beat the Lakers. You tell him the Clippers beat the Lakers. He says Prove I'm Wrong. You show him the newspaper results of the game before showing the Clippers indeed beat the Lakers. That proves he is wrong.
I do not need to prove he is wrong, he would need to prove to me the Lakers beat the Clippers.

If I address the argument by trying to show he is wrong any number of claims could be made, each needing to be addressed.

Bill Smith could make any number of ridiculous claims such as:

"The newspaper could be a forgery. The entire game was a conspiracy and a fake game was shown in the media hiding the real game in which the Lakers one."

Any number of reasons, although ridiculous, can be produced, forged, falsified etc. No matter what proof I show to Bill Smith he is wrong, he can come up with a reason he does not accept it.

This is why logic dictates the burden of proof is upon the claimant to prove he is right. Not that the antagonist is false.

In the above example you give. I do not have to prove Bill Smith is wrong, the Burden of proof is for Bill Smith to prove the Lakers beat the Clippers.
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05-15-2013, 07:42 PM
 Location: Logan Township, Minnesota 15,511 posts, read 13,219,704 times Reputation: 7407
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Charles I'm not even going to ask you to prove your assertion written above. I'll settle for a half way logical explanation.

The reason one can not prove a statement is wrong, even an absurd statement, is because an adversary can come up with an infinite number of reasons it is true and that leaves us in the position of having to address endless reasons and possibilities the statement could be true. Even though the reasons are nonsense.

The burden of proof is to prove your own statement is true, not that another person's statement is false.

Getting back to my whole purpose of this thread is to show to my fellow theists that the Arguement of saying "Prove that God does not exist." is a very poor arguement to use and something us Theists should not do.

The fact nobody can prove "God does not exist" is not proof He does exist. We Theists need to accept the responsibility and understanding it is our responsibility to prove God(swt) exists and no Atheist is to be expected to prove He does not exist.
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05-17-2013, 08:56 AM
 643 posts, read 666,513 times Reputation: 705
The simple question to prove that someone is wrong is to ask them to prove that they are right. When it comes to thinking, the structure of logic and thought brings forth logic and reason. Rational thought combined with perfect ethics can proven anything correct or incorrect. It's the morals as virtues disguised as pride the come before the fall. Alfred Adler always reminded people in psychology to remember where there feet are. Otto Rank focused on the here and now. Direct inspection and analysis of thought it was people fear more than the truth. Being proven to be irrelevant is like a death to those who are self righteous and self important.

05-20-2013, 09:01 PM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Woodrow LI A common argument I see being presented by people is the Statement. "Prove I am wrong?" Except for mathematical operations one can not prove anything is wrong. No statement no matter how ridiculous or obviously wrong can be proven wrong. As an experiment I defy anyone to offer proof that this statement is wrong. "Giant 12 legged purple, man-eating aardvarks have invaded the USA."
I have not yet seen a single giant, purple man-eating aardvark with twelve legs. Nor have such invasions been reported in any newspaper, television report, or radio address.

The above statement can be proven wrong, by the lack of observable evidence, but it cannot be proven correct.

05-20-2013, 11:39 PM
 Location: Logan Township, Minnesota 15,511 posts, read 13,219,704 times Reputation: 7407
Quote:
 Originally Posted by FredNotBob I have not yet seen a single giant, purple man-eating aardvark with twelve legs. Nor have such invasions been reported in any newspaper, television report, or radio address. The above statement can be proven wrong, by the lack of observable evidence, but it cannot be proven correct.
True it can not be proven correct. But the inability to prove something exists, is not proof it does not exist. There are probably many undiscovered living organisms we have not seen, because we have not seen them is not proof they do not exist.

The burden is always upon the one making a claim to prove it is true. It is not up to anyone to prove something does not exist.

The fact you or any one else has not seen a giant, purple man-eating aardvark with twelve legs, is not proof they do not exist. They could be very good at hiding from humans. They also control the media so no reports of them are ever made public. Insidious rascals, aren't they?

The media never made any mention of the USA making an atomic bomb until after Hiroshima. Did that mean we did not have at least one already built?

Prior to the 1930s no one had every reported seeing a living coelacanth, was that proof they did not exist?

There are probably many life forms in the universe no human has ever seen and never will, is that proof they do not exist?
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05-23-2013, 04:44 AM
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Woodrow LI The burden is always upon the one making a claim to prove it is true. It is not up to anyone to prove something does not exist.
Actually, it is up to someone to prove that it doesn't exist -- that person is the one that asserts that the purple aardvarks don't exist (and yes, I realize that I'm getting a bit pedantic, and I apologize )

I can prove the Aardvark Statement wrong: purple aardvarks have not invaded the US. For one thing, aardvarks aren't purple (Wikipedia lists them as pale yelllowish-grey).

As for the Hiroshima example -- the reason the Bomb wasn't mentioned in the media prior to Hiroshima was because it was a national secret. Governments tend to get a bit tetchy when wartime secrets appear in the New York Times.

05-23-2013, 06:31 AM
 Location: Logan Township, Minnesota 15,511 posts, read 13,219,704 times Reputation: 7407
Quote:
 Originally Posted by FredNotBob Actually, it is up to someone to prove that it doesn't exist -- that person is the one that asserts that the purple aardvarks don't exist (and yes, I realize that I'm getting a bit pedantic, and I apologize ) I can prove the Aardvark Statement wrong: purple aardvarks have not invaded the US. For one thing, aardvarks aren't purple (Wikipedia lists them as pale yelllowish-grey). As for the Hiroshima example -- the reason the Bomb wasn't mentioned in the media prior to Hiroshima was because it was a national secret. Governments tend to get a bit tetchy when wartime secrets appear in the New York Times.

Just proves that them nasty purple Aardvarks are much more devious and advanced than the government. They have advanced way beyond this:

Quote:
 As for the Hiroshima example -- the reason the Bomb wasn't mentioned in the media prior to Hiroshima was because it was a national secret. Governments tend to get a bit tetchy when wartime secrets appear in the New York Times.
Their existence is kept hidden by the "Purple Aardvark Brotherhood" and they have done such a good job at it, nearly everyone believes they do not exist. Them scoundrels even wrote a wiki article to convince people no aardvarks are purple.

When attempting to prove that something does not exist, there are an infinite number of counter arguments. The number of counter arguments is only limited by a person's imagination. To attempt to prove something does not exist requires proving each of those statements are false, no matter how asinine or ridiculous the statements may be.
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