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Old 05-23-2013, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,353 posts, read 9,083,232 times
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I have a headache...
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,224,220 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I have a headache...

Me too

Apparently I still have not made it clear what I am attempting to demonstrate in this thread. A summation of what I am trying to show.

1. Many of us theists believe that because an Atheist can not prove God(swt) does not exist, it is proof God(swt) does exist.

2. I personally find that to be a nonsensical challenge

3. I am hoping some of my fellow Theists will wake up and see the ignorance and futility in asking someone to prove God(swt) does not exist.

4. I contend it is impossible to prove something does not exist.

5. The fact that an atheist can not prove God(swt) does not exist, is not proof He does exist.

It is a challenge we Theists need to stop issuing, It only makes us look ridiculous. As Theists it is up to us to give acceptable proof God(swt) exists. It is not up to an Atheist to prove God(swt) does not exist.

I am providing my Purple aardvark, simply as an example of the impossibility to prove that even a nonsensical, imaginary creature can not be proven to not exist. Someone can always come up with a reason to show why it has not been detected. I am quite certain my aardvark does not exist. But I can not .prove that one does not. I do not believe anyone else can prove my imaginary aardvark does not exist. Which is the purpose of my challenge,

Prove my fictitious aardvark does not exist.

If a person has attempted to do so, perhaps it may cause them to realize how ignorant it is to ask an Atheist to prove God(swt) does not exist, and they will accept it is their responsibility to prove God(swt) exists. Not for the Atheist to prove He does not.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,353 posts, read 9,083,232 times
Reputation: 12971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Me too

Apparently I still have not made it clear what I am attempting to demonstrate in this thread. A summation of what I am trying to show.

1. Many of us theists believe that because an Atheist can not prove God(swt) does not exist, it is proof God(swt) does exist.

2. I personally find that to be a nonsensical challenge

3. I am hoping some of my fellow Theists will wake up and see the ignorance and futility in asking someone to prove God(swt) does not exist.

4. I contend it is impossible to prove something does not exist.

5. The fact that an atheist can not prove God(swt) does not exist, is not proof He does exist.

It is a challenge we Theists need to stop issuing, It only makes us look ridiculous. As Theists it is up to us to give acceptable proof God(swt) exists. It is not up to an Atheist to prove God(swt) does not exist.

I am providing my Purple aardvark, simply as an example of the impossibility to prove that even a nonsensical, imaginary creature can not be proven to not exist. Someone can always come up with a reason to show why it has not been detected. I am quite certain my aardvark does not exist. But I can not .prove that one does not. I do not believe anyone else can prove my imaginary aardvark does not exist. Which is the purpose of my challenge,

Prove my fictitious aardvark does not exist.

If a person has attempted to do so, perhaps it may cause them to realize how ignorant it is to ask an Atheist to prove God(swt) does not exist, and they will accept it is their responsibility to prove God(swt) exists. Not for the Atheist to prove He does not.
I agree. I sometimes use the "prove it doesn't exist" argument when I perceive the person might fall for it.

As to proving evidence supporting God, I've done it many times-only to have it "explained" away by the skeptic. (some of the explainations were fairly bizzare-once a skeptic said it must have been ESP on my part which caused the event to happen).
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,224,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I agree. I sometimes use the "prove it doesn't exist" argument when I perceive the person might fall for it.

As to proving evidence supporting God, I've done it many times-only to have it "explained" away by the skeptic. (some of the explainations were fairly bizzare-once a skeptic said it must have been ESP on my part which caused the event to happen).
Yes a person can explain away proof and find reason not to accept it.

All we are capable of doing is expressing 2 statement those being:
Quote:
1. I believe x is true

2. The reason I believe x is true is because of...................

That is all we need do. We can not make anyone believe anything we believe. But we can tell why we believe it to be true.

example:

Man A: I believe the bridge is out up ahead, because that big sign put up by the Highway dept says it is.

Man B: I been driving this road for 20 years and have crossed that bridge thousands of times. I know there is a bridge there and I'm not going to be stopped by any stupid sign.

(Off he goes at 75mph)

Man A (in his best Arnold voice) Hasta la vista, baby
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:00 PM
 
3,523 posts, read 3,909,107 times
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"Giant 12 legged purple, man-eating aardvarks have invaded the USA."

Easy. They haven't. You're wrong.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,224,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub dub II View Post
"Giant 12 legged purple, man-eating aardvarks have invaded the USA."

Easy. They haven't. You're wrong.
There is no way you can prove they have not invaded the USA.

I contend they are masters of disguise and mind control. They are disguising themselves as Democrats. It is possible some of the Democrats you know are Giant 12 legged purple, man-eating aardvarks. You can not distinguish them from humans. So far no one has been able to find a means to tell the difference between a real human and a disguised purple aardvark.

The fact you can not see them or heard of them is testimony to how well developed their technology is. They are millions of years more advanced than us poor human's. If your next door neighbors are Democrats they may have been eaten by them and replaced by disguised aardvarks.
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Old 05-26-2013, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,808 posts, read 1,582,194 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
There is no way you can prove they have not invaded the USA.

I contend they are masters of disguise and mind control. They are disguising themselves as Democrats. It is possible some of the Democrats you know are Giant 12 legged purple, man-eating aardvarks. You can not distinguish them from humans. So far no one has been able to find a means to tell the difference between a real human and a disguised purple aardvark.

The fact you can not see them or heard of them is testimony to how well developed their technology is. They are millions of years more advanced than us poor human's. If your next door neighbors are Democrats they may have been eaten by them and replaced by disguised aardvarks.
So, here's the challenge:

Prove to me that the aardvarks have invaded.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,224,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob View Post
So, here's the challenge:

Prove to me that the aardvarks have invaded.
I can't.

If a person claims they have, the burden is for them to prove they have.

However, the fact I can not prove the vicious aardvarks have invaded, is not proof they haven't. I might be too stupid to recognize any proof they exist.

The inability to prove something exists, is not proof it does not exist.

Because no one has shown any proof that the invading aardvarks exist, could just mean we do not have the means to identify them. It is not proof they do not exist.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,808 posts, read 1,582,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I can't.

If a person claims they have, the burden is for them to prove they have.

However, the fact I can not prove the vicious aardvarks have invaded, is not proof they haven't. I might be too stupid to recognize any proof they exist.

The inability to prove something exists, is not proof it does not exist.

Because no one has shown any proof that the invading aardvarks exist, could just mean we do not have the means to identify them. It is not proof they do not exist.
So, we're at a stalemate. I can't prove they don't, you can't prove they do. And yes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

We're still dancing around the issue, though: are the purple aardvarks real in the first place? We're arguing over the animal equivalent of UFOs. Are they real, or simply swamp gas in the atmosphere?

We know what an aardvark looks like; we also know what the color 'purple' looks like. If you can produce one single purple aardvark, I might concede the point, because then I will know that a purple aardvark is possible.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,224,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob View Post
So, we're at a stalemate. I can't prove they don't, you can't prove they do. And yes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

We're still dancing around the issue, though: are the purple aardvarks real in the first place? We're arguing over the animal equivalent of UFOs. Are they real, or simply swamp gas in the atmosphere?

We know what an aardvark looks like; we also know what the color 'purple' looks like. If you can produce one single purple aardvark, I might concede the point, because then I will know that a purple aardvark is possible.

Which would upset my purpose of the thread.

The purpose being to demonstrate to some of my fellow Theists that it is ridiculous for us to ever issue the challenge "Prove God(swt) does not exist."

Then sit around convinced that because an Atheist can not do so, it is proof God(swt) exists.
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