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Old 06-07-2013, 12:44 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,116,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
I have noticed the age of sexual consent has dropped over the years.
Name one state that has lowered the age of consent.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Kansas
19,185 posts, read 15,041,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Name one state that has lowered the age of consent.
WI lowered theirs from 18 to 16 in 1981. I know that KS made revisions which I could not find about the age difference between the two individuals. There was a couple of teachers that were having sex with students, one moved to WI with his pregnant student which he married (old enough to be her grandpa - he would have moved if it were my daughter) and the other made the mistake of not waiting until the child was 17 so all offenses before he turned 17 put in her jail. I did learn while looking at this that pedophile advocacy groups are active in trying to get changes made. The laws are complicated because there are "ifs and buts". Again, pedophiles want access to our children and I know there was an active homosexual group whose motto was "Sex Before 8 or It's Too Late".

I found there was a lot of activity regarding the age of sexual consent. I am guessing most is aimed at trying to protect our children from people who don't see anything wrong with pedophilia, seriously, put them to sleep!

Pedophiles are sick and need to be treated as such. This has nothing to do with morals or anyone's religion or lack of religion. Mentally sick. Sick in any and every way possible.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,615,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
Worth repeating. Sadly, there is a segment of our population who want to push to get pedophilia considered another kind of normal so that they can freely "enjoy" that. I have noticed the age of sexual consent has dropped over the years.
Give one example of this happening in North America in the past 30 years.

Over the last century or so, not only has the average AoC gone way up, but the penalties for transgressing it have increased geometrically; and we are now in the grotesque situation of charging and convicting people too young to consent to be sexual partners, charged with being sexual predators and burdened with a twisted registration requirement for decades or life.

BTW pedophilia has nothing to do with banging teenagers. That's just regular good old American lechery.

Last edited by djacques; 06-07-2013 at 09:59 PM..
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
In reality it is just pointed out that there is no moral basis besides one's own personal convictions for living such a life. If one has inclination to go outside of that behavior, there isn't an universal code that could truly condemn that behavior.
As long as there is one person who denies this universal moral code, it isn't universal.

If one human (or other) "soul" is capable of shouting from the depths that God is a *******, God's authority is of exactly the same nature as the government's; just differing, it is claimed, in degree.

And the government has the advantage of actually existing.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:23 PM
 
259 posts, read 204,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
They go to jail!

Criminal law is the codification of morality that does not require the imposition of a deity.
Further validating the point that people use government as the arbiter of morality.

Yet at the same time this is an inconsistent position many have because they often display displeasure when something is illegal that they think should be legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiuppy View Post
Instinct to protect the young.
What if other people don't share your instinct? Where is this instinct when there is infanticide in the lion kingdomg? Or rape and pedophilia among several other animals including dolphins?
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Michigan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATTC View Post
Further validating the point that people use government as the arbiter of morality.
Some people do, but saying the government's morality is absolute is not the only way to resolve your dilemma. You may conclude as I do that no morality is absolute in the way you are using the term; neither one's own nor the government's nor "God's". But who cares? Most people get along most of the time on most subjects based on rough moral consensus. I think that's the best there is, or ever will be.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:20 PM
 
259 posts, read 204,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djacques View Post
Some people do, but saying the government's morality is absolute is not the only way to resolve your dilemma. You may conclude as I do that no morality is absolute in the way you are using the term; neither one's own nor the government's nor "God's". But who cares? Most people get along most of the time on most subjects based on rough moral consensus. I think that's the best there is, or ever will be.
Well the appeal to the higher authority above government has been used to challenge the British empire, was later used to challenge slavery, was used to challenge child sacrifice, etc

Many government sanctioned institutions were challenged on the basis of an authority that was worth
obeying above government.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,615,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATTC View Post
Well the appeal to the higher authority above government has been used to challenge the British empire, was later used to challenge slavery, was used to challenge child sacrifice, etc

Many government sanctioned institutions were challenged on the basis of an authority that was worth
obeying above government.
True, that has been the case. But "higher" is a tricky term. If God does exist, it is logical to invoke Him as a higher authority than government. If He doesn't, in what sense can He sensibly be called "higher" than government? The moral authority attributed to God does not change, it simply would then reside in that portion of the human race that adopted the higher morality in question. I don't see "I don't think you should hurt people" as being a weaker statement in response to government than "God doesn't think you should hurt people." Not because I think I am God, but because I think there is no God.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Kansas
19,185 posts, read 15,041,276 times
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I think we have established that Atheists have morals and that you don't have to believe in God or any higher being to realize how wrapped someone has to be to abuse and/or molest a child. It is possible to be sexually attracted to a child and get therapy and medication to overcome it and a rationale person would realize they needed help and get it and for whatever reason they ended up with such a burden, I would have nothing but respect for the individual seeking help. "Fondling" your own child or the child of someone else? Ask your neighbors and co-workers if they see anything immoral about this. You'll begin to see that the objection is extremely widespread and you'll be the outcast you deserve to be if you are promoting the sexual molesting of children.

The other thing I don't understand is that 40 years ago when I was a teen, everyone was well aware of "jail-bail" and an adult knew not to get involved with a minor. A 19 year old needs to understand that having sex with a 15 year old is going to be issue and this should be taught by the parents or in sex ed. Oh, he didn't know she was 15 years old? Well, maybe along with that talk about jail-bait one might discuss maybe knowing someone a little better before having sex with them. Commonsense.

Again, watch this kind of topic of discussion. There is a movement trying to make "pedophilia" a sexual orientation. Can't you just see them demanding their rights to molest your children and you being called a "pedophobe" for denying their rights to find satisfaction in molesting your children. They'll say your children have the right to express their sexuality. They already say this and that was part of that "Sex Before Eight or It's Too Late" platform.

I cannot help but think this topic was brought up "fishing". If you have a sexual attraction to children, you can get help and do so before you act on it.

This is real life crap: http://www.nambla.org/

Here is a description of this type of person, sounds normal, not: http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

Last edited by AnywhereElse; 06-08-2013 at 07:21 AM..
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,715 posts, read 11,615,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
I think we have established that Atheists have morals and that you don't have to believe in God or any higher being to realize how wrapped someone has to be to abuse and/or molest a child. It is possible to be sexually attracted to a child and get therapy and medication to overcome it and a rationale person would realize they needed help and get it and for whatever reason they ended up with such a burden, I would have nothing but respect for the individual seeking help. "Fondling" your own child or the child of someone else? Ask your neighbors and co-workers if they see anything immoral about this. You'll begin to see that the objection is extremely widespread and you'll be the outcast you deserve to be if you are promoting the sexual molesting of children.
The fascinating thing, when you know many sexual offenders (and their families), is how very often and severely they judge and turn on each other. Well, my son may have (fill in the blank), but at least he's not like that awful Mr. X who (fill in the blank). They have all absorbed the idea that certain actions are contemptible, even though they may like an exception made for themselves.

Quote:
The other thing I don't understand is that 40 years ago when I was a teen, everyone was well aware of "jail-bail" and an adult knew not to get involved with a minor. A 19 year old needs to understand that having sex with a 15 year old is going to be issue and this should be taught by the parents or in sex ed. Oh, he didn't know she was 15 years old? Well, maybe along with that talk about jail-bait one might discuss maybe knowing someone a little better before having sex with them. Commonsense.
The laws do differ among the states on what qualifies, but I believe it ought to be taught in health class what the law is in that particular location.

Quote:
Again, watch this kind of topic of discussion. There is a movement trying to make "pedophilia" a sexual orientation. Can't you just see them demanding their rights to molest your children and you being called a "pedophobe" for denying their rights to find satisfaction in molesting your children. They'll say your children have the right to express their sexuality. They already say this and that was part of that "Sex Before Eight or It's Too Late" platform.
It's unclear that there was ever a group with that particular slogan, although as a semi-urban legend it has become popular on the populist right. If any group said that, it was the long-defunct Rene Guyon Society, not NAMBLA (now also basically defunct) or any other American group.

Quote:
I cannot help but think this topic was brought up "fishing".
I think the OP merely wanted to find an emotional topic on which to arraign atheists, not as supporters necessarily, but as ineffective opponents, of something that is generally reviled. I'm not sure if he got the answers he was expecting.
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