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Old 08-11-2013, 03:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkGuy View Post
This is the oldest argument in the religious book, and it has been utterly demolished, over and over and over again. Yet, believers keep throwing it up.

All it takes to be moral to recognize that other people are just as real as we are. That's it. It really is that simple. If you recognize that fact, you have empathy. If you have empathy, you can be a moral person. Pedophilia does unspeakable harm to children. We would hate to have it done to us. So, recognizing that children are just as real as we are, we condemn it and punish it. The end.

But I have to ask, why do you think getting your morals from God makes you a better person? I don't see any evidence that believers act and better or worse than non-believers.
I think it goes to show that there are 'believers' who just never developed empathy- which kind of makes them prime candidates for being sociopaths. If the only thing stopping them from harming others is a belief in an imaginary wrathful deity who will send them to hell, then I hope they keep believing. Meanwhile, lets try to nurture the innate empathy in our children instead of brainwashing them with notions of a primitive emotionally abusive parental deity figure.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:21 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Op's question failed on its premise...that morals have to come from religion.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
In Judges (last example), the nation of Israel did what they wanted to do and were not regularly following God. So you can throw that out.

Deuteronomy 20 - sexual conduct is not mentioned. The women could be maidservants.

Numbers 31 - The women that could be taken were to be virgins - eligible for marriage if they chose to assimilate into Israel.
LOL! Classic.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATTC View Post
It's funny you say that because it's quite the opposite

Because the world has no problem adopting theistic concepts on morality such as

Killing, Stealing, Lying, Cheating, etc

But the biggest objection comes from topics surrounding sex

Promiscuity, Pornography, Homosexuality, and Abortion are the biggest disagreement the world has with Christianity, and it's openly hostile towards the church because of it

That's because as is stated, it's the lust in people that drives so much of their rebellion
You are making an assumption that morality on killing stealing lying and cheating were originally 'theistic concepts'. Why?
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATTC View Post
Your premise is a strawman from the start. This is the problem with the morality question when directed at antitheists. From the very start they set up a strawman accusing you of saying that only people who believe in a divinely inspired moral code are capable of living a life without murder, rape, etc

In reality it is just pointed out that there is no moral basis besides one's own personal convictions for living such a life. If one has inclination to go outside of that behavior, there isn't an universal code that could truly condemn that behavior.
There is a moral basis - empathy.

And religions or their deities are certainly not universal.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATTC View Post
Again more irony from the anti-theists. IN reality in the Brave New World of people being hypersexualized, that's what makes them more domesticated. That's what makes them more selfish and unlikely to think about family and community which are necessary in order to stand up to political corruption. It's this decadence and anything goes attitude of sexuality that often precedes the fall of great empires most notably the Roman empire.
Your knowledge of history is flawed and seems to be 'informed' by far right conservative christian rhetoric.

It was Christianity being made the religion of the Roman Empire that preceded it's fall. (Not saying it was the cause)
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
Worth repeating. Sadly, there is a segment of our population who want to push to get pedophilia considered another kind of normal so that they can freely "enjoy" that. I have noticed the age of sexual consent has dropped over the years. This is not so much about sex as it is control, much like rape. They require children because they can't stand up to being in an adult relationship even just for sex so they prey on children to fulfill their desire for power and control. These people have mental health issues that should never be addressed by giving them the desired access to our children. These are the same people who sit at the internet looking at kiddie porn and say it doesn't hurt anything because they don't consider the children used in this porn to be deserving of human dignity. So, what the OP seems to be proposing is not about the animal kingdom but about mental health issues and our children. When I was in kindergarten, the principal of the two room school had sex with 3 of the 6th graders and one became pregnant and went to a home for unwed mothers and this was in the early 60's. These pervs are out there and they want access and the insanity lies in the fact that they don't think they should be denied.
No the age of consent has not 'dropped over the years'. It has risen. Just over 100 years ago it was as low as 7 in Delaware. Legislation and practices to protect children have increased.

Who is wanting pedophilia to be 'considered some kind of normal'?

No sane person is 'giving them the desired access to children'.

I agree it's not so much about sex as about control, and yes, pedophiles have mental health issues.
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Old 08-11-2013, 07:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTaTHEIST View Post
It's true you need not have religion or god belief to have a moral structure. However, our views on human sexuality has been and still is being heavily influenced by religious thinking. So indirectly I would say, religious memes infect all of our thinking on sexuality, including pedophilia.
What do you expect when you have men creating a religion which started with a deity asking Abraham to cut off the tip of his penis and to slit the throat of his own son?
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Old 08-11-2013, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Kansas
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These threads connect some of the dots: California Rep. Jackie Speier Puts Forth Plan To Make 'Pedophiles' A Protected Class and Pedophiles want same rights as homosexuals :: Northern Colorado Gazette and The Shadow Sexual Revolution – The Push to Legalize Pedophilia - All American Blogger and Sexual Discrimination Bill Would Protect Pedophiles From Being Banned As Preschool Teachers | The Daley Gator

Not just another kind of "normal". When we take away the stigma by saying it is just sexual orientation, isn't that saying it is another kind of "normal"? These people aren't normal and they are dangerous to our children. It is not acceptable. Had anyone touched my children............ And, that message was always clear.

This is so clearly a mental health issue/moral issue. These feelings of entitlement to children, well, words cannot describe how sick that is. And sadly, incest is another issue for these sick and demented people. It is my understanding that some can be helped IF they want and willingly work toward not a cure but a way to deal with the feelings. Of course, now that some want to make it a sexual orientation and not a fault of their own and probably a violation of their rights since they can't "pursue happiness" it will be a continuing battle. It is important to vote, understand what laws and protections are being considered before they become written in stone.

This is where believing in Hell is a comfort. I am a firm believer in "you reap what you sow".
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:33 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTaTHEIST View Post
It's true you need not have religion or god belief to have a moral structure. However, our views on human sexuality has been and still is being heavily influenced by religious thinking. So indirectly I would say, religious memes infect all of our thinking on sexuality, including pedophilia.
Why does it have to have anything to do with morality or religion? Pedophilia traumatizes people. Isn't that enough justification to prohibit it?
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