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Old 05-29-2013, 10:53 AM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,683,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwomanstanding View Post
That's what I'm getting at, no grand plan.
I think I understand where you're coming from.
It's frustrating when people prematurely conclude that the result of something is for a specific, but unknown/mysterious reason, especially if they use that as an excuse to avoid responsibility.
Still, I do believe that things happen for a reason - often for multiple reasons, since we live in a multi-dimensional world.

A plan is a "detailed proposal for doing or achieving something."
There is no doubt that this world we live in is detailed and has laws or plans, that events adhere to.

There is the belief that "as above, so below" and that before anything is materialized, it is first spiritual or thought of. Even philosopher and mathemetician, Gottfried Leibniz proposed that the essence of everything are "monads" - immaterial, and only destructable if joined with another, but indestructable in and of themselves. Some believe in a type of spiritual or energetic field, which is similar to Gottfried's comment regarding the interconnectedness of everything... "Now this interconnection, relationship, or this adaptation of all things to each particular one, and of each one to all the rest brings it about that every simple substance (monad) has relations which express all the others and that it is consequently a perpetual living mirror of the universe."

Another thought when considering if "everything happens for a reason" from a biological and metaphysical perspective, is the idea of the placebo effect.
For more info:

Dr Bruce Lipton -Where Mind and Matter Meet 1 - YouTube

Also for a list of possible metaphysical causes of illness and related affirmations:
Healing Affirmations - Metaphysical Causes of Disease and Illness
Still, keep in mind, that metaphysics is not the entire picture of health...lifestyle, genetics etc. are also part.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:04 PM
 
10,452 posts, read 15,432,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwomanstanding View Post
Discuss. You hear a lot of philosophies that everything is connected and nothing is coincidence but I am wondering if this is all a bunch of BS to make people feel better when things don't go smooth- similar to the whole "blessing in disguise." I think a blessing is just the good you make from a bad situation when YOU walk away from it, not just GOD, the Universe or coincidences? I do believe in the power of positive - and negative - thinking. We make our own realities while others are simultaneously making their own. The results are random. And I do believe in God. Please , your thoughts?

Well, for starters, one on the real quest for the Truth will not succumb to the "BS" rhetoric, but then again, general public vocabulary here is so low, I'll let it pass.

Willingly or not, as you mention blessing in disguise, let me tell you a short parable.

Somewhere around winter coldest time, a little bird was flying outside. It was so cold, that birdy froze and fell down on a country road.
That happened to be a path for cows to go home. So it happened, and one of the cows generously relieved itself atop of the frozen birdy.
Cow fices were warm and birdy came back to life. She stuck her head out of the pile and started chirping, full of life and energy.
That attracted a cat, who came and ate the bird.
Wisdom to this parable is:
not everyone who defecated on you is your enemy
And, if you were up your eyeballs in fices, at least, do not chirp.

Not sure if it's not too much of a far fetched allegory for this particular thread, but indeed, one never knows, what is blessing, and what is curse in disguise.
That is because a human life is very short, and, sometimes very far fetched aftereffects of an event, can not be observed and noticed and aligned as blessing or curse.
Only one that has ability to follow re-existences through their multitude, may notice a pattern. Only instantenious results and gratifications can be, maybe, noticed.

Let me tell another story. That, actually, happened to my mom's good friend. She had to fly , winter time again, to Moscow. A night before flight, her then passed mother came to her in dream, standing, waving her finger at her, and saying "Beware of 6, beware of 6".
Back in old times, we did not have all the fancy boarding escalators and such, so next day, she had to walk towards the airplane. It was quite snowing, and plane's rudder was all covered in snow. Except one large digit 6 showing. Mom's friend noticed it, and was so occupied with it, that she fell and broke her ankle.
Sure enough, bummer, aye? She was hospitalized. 2 days later, she found that that flihgt crashed 20 minutes away from Moscow.

Truly, instead of me pretending to be Christ and speak in parables, all you need to do is not to concern yourself with those things at all. All you need to do is to live your life, day by day, moment by moment, without any attachment to things mundane, and listening to the voice of conscience.

This is it. THEN, it will all fall, eventually, into its right paths.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Reno (Cold Springs) NV
131 posts, read 214,851 times
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How about a yes with a little no. Sometimes we may never know the reason, if Lot was never informed of his test he would have never known (not for discussion if anyone believes it as truth or not). Who knows how many other times similar tests could have been conducted. We could also be an auxiliary to other events (if not for the events of WWII, would the UN have set up Israel in 1948) many of the Jews who died in the death camps probably would have taken little solace in this (if they could have been questioned about a future event). A neat question to think over, not one to throw bombs at others about.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:06 AM
 
Location: S. Florida
1,100 posts, read 2,654,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwomanstanding View Post
Discuss. You hear a lot of philosophies that everything is connected and nothing is coincidence but I am wondering if this is all a bunch of BS to make people feel better when things don't go smooth- similar to the whole "blessing in disguise." I think a blessing is just the good you make from a bad situation when YOU walk away from it, not just GOD, the Universe or coincidences? I do believe in the power of positive - and negative - thinking. We make our own realities while others are simultaneously making their own. The results are random. And I do believe in God. Please , your thoughts?
I suffered from infertility with multiple ectopic pregnancies. I used to cry and ask god why me??? All I have ever wanted was to be a mother. Long story short, I eventually got pregnant with my son via IVF (in vitro fertilization) and my daughter was adopted at birth via an open adoption plan. I consider both of my children miracles. I DO believe that things happen for a reason. I am GRATEFUL for my infertility. I wouldn't have my beautiful children any other way. They came to me the way they were supposed to. I don't ever take motherhood for granted. Sometimes the hard road, and the twists and turns in life lead us into the best path in the end.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:59 AM
 
3,669 posts, read 4,913,764 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwomanstanding View Post
Discuss. You hear a lot of philosophies that everything is connected and nothing is coincidence but I am wondering if this is all a bunch of BS to make people feel better when things don't go smooth- similar to the whole "blessing in disguise." I think a blessing is just the good you make from a bad situation when YOU walk away from it, not just GOD, the Universe or coincidences? I do believe in the power of positive - and negative - thinking. We make our own realities while others are simultaneously making their own. The results are random. And I do believe in God. Please , your thoughts?
You have to set some ground rules here....otherwise, we'll be talking apples and oranges in no time!
what do people mean when they say "everything happens for a reason"? is it:
1. everything happens for a reason, because there's a larger purpose in the equation and the current event falls within this equation or
2. everything happens because something caused it....ie. cause and effect.

i can of course agree with the second definition...but not with the first as a general rule. things of course happen because something was the predecessor and caused it to happen (ie. me hitting you because you hit my child ). There is no 'grand master plan' that your god and/or universe has for 'us' however.......if you're ever tempted to believe in definition #1 above, ask yourself this: "is there a grand reason why a child of 1 or 2 years old gets raped?"
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:01 AM
 
3,669 posts, read 4,913,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2justynsarah View Post
I suffered from infertility with multiple ectopic pregnancies. I used to cry and ask god why me??? All I have ever wanted was to be a mother. Long story short, I eventually got pregnant with my son via IVF (in vitro fertilization) and my daughter was adopted at birth via an open adoption plan. I consider both of my children miracles. I DO believe that things happen for a reason. I am GRATEFUL for my infertility. I wouldn't have my beautiful children any other way. They came to me the way they were supposed to. I don't ever take motherhood for granted. Sometimes the hard road, and the twists and turns in life lead us into the best path in the end.

ummm....FALSE.
If your children are 'miracles' (which they are most certainly NOT), they are here because of the advancement of SCIENCE (ie. IVF)....not a deity or a grand master plan!

Don't thank your 'gawd', thank a scientist!
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,013,974 times
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If I shuffle a deck of cards, and turn up the top card, and it is the Five of Hearts, what does it mean when I say "That card turned up for a reason"? How meaningful are each of those reasons, buried layer under layer, that caused that event?

Most things happen to you because you were at the time and place at which you intesected with the event. Occasionally, very rarely, you can rationally structure your life so that, more often than randomly, you are at a propitious time and place, probably often enough that there is a visible difference in your life outcome. Your ability to learn from experience and/or logic that cars crash more catastrophically at 100 mph than at 50 mph, and you adjust your life accordingly, because sooner or later, you will intersect with that event.

But when the cards are shuffled and the five of hearts is on top, there is nothing in the world that you can do to fill that inside straight with a ten..
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:50 AM
 
Location: S. Florida
1,100 posts, read 2,654,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking-man View Post
ummm....FALSE.
If your children are 'miracles' (which they are most certainly NOT), they are here because of the advancement of SCIENCE (ie. IVF)....not a deity or a grand master plan!

Don't thank your 'gawd', thank a scientist!
If you truly read my post, only one child was conceived through IVF. The other child was adopted at birth. I am very grateful for the Reproductive Endocrinologist who was very skilled at implanting embryo's into my uterus. However, the success rates for IVF were less than 15%. At the time (15 years ago), I was told I had less than a 2% chance of getting pregnant. So the fact that my son's embryo implanted in my uterus was to me, in fact a miracle. So YES, I thank GOD for conceiving my son and giving birth to him.

The fact that my healthy infant daughter was adopted in less than three months is also very unusual. If you know anything about adoption, it is NOT a quick, fast and painless process. But my daughter's adoption was truly a miracle to me as well.

While going through my infertility, I couldn't understand why. But I see that things truly did happen for a reason. I wouldn't have my children brought into my life any other way than it was meant to be.

It's too bad that you have forgotten that we are spiritual beings having human experiences.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:00 AM
 
3,669 posts, read 4,913,764 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2justynsarah View Post
If you truly read my post, only one child was conceived through IVF. The other child was adopted at birth. I am very grateful for the Reproductive Endocrinologist who was very skilled at implanting embryo's into my uterus. However, the success rates for IVF were less than 15%. At the time (15 years ago), I was told I had less than a 2% chance of getting pregnant. So the fact that my son's embryo implanted in my uterus was to me, in fact a miracle. So YES, I thank GOD for conceiving my son and giving birth to him.

The fact that my healthy infant daughter was adopted in less than three months is also very unusual. If you know anything about adoption, it is NOT a quick, fast and painless process. But my daughter's adoption was truly a miracle to me as well.

While going through my infertility, I couldn't understand why. But I see that things truly did happen for a reason. I wouldn't have my children brought into my life any other way than it was meant to be.

It's too bad that you have forgotten that we are spiritual beings having human experiences.
bla bla bla....is all i read! wishy washy nonsense.
you certainly have a low standard of what you call 'miracle'. You need to understand the difference between the fairy-tale you call 'miracle' and an improbable event.....which still 'happens' (obviously!), regardless of how improbable the event is (in your case 2%! which if you think about it, if there are 10 million people getting the IVF done, the 2% means that about 200,000 of them will CERTAINLY get pregnant. )

so, go ahead and thank your gawd instead of the scientists that made it possible for you to have a child. it doesn't make a difference. There is no 'master plan'. there wasn't a 'reason' your IVF worked and that of the other 98% didn't work. it's just statistics. simple. Done.

Last edited by Thinking-man; 06-03-2013 at 10:11 AM..
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Old 06-03-2013, 06:06 PM
 
Location: S. Florida
1,100 posts, read 2,654,380 times
Reputation: 1419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking-man View Post
bla bla bla....is all i read! wishy washy nonsense.
you certainly have a low standard of what you call 'miracle'. You need to understand the difference between the fairy-tale you call 'miracle' and an improbable event.....which still 'happens' (obviously!), regardless of how improbable the event is (in your case 2%! which if you think about it, if there are 10 million people getting the IVF done, the 2% means that about 200,000 of them will CERTAINLY get pregnant. )

so, go ahead and thank your gawd instead of the scientists that made it possible for you to have a child. it doesn't make a difference. There is no 'master plan'. there wasn't a 'reason' your IVF worked and that of the other 98% didn't work. it's just statistics. simple. Done.

You must be a real pleasure to spend time with . I find people with your attitude revolting. Have a nice life. I am out of this conversation.
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