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Old 05-30-2013, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Australia
1,058 posts, read 1,450,232 times
Reputation: 1695

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First of all, let me state that I believe that there are invalid reasons to want to commit suicide such as ending a relationship, failing an exam, losing a job etc. because they are TEMPORARY and all people should move on and get over it eventually.

I can understand how certain methods of suicide are wrong like jumping in front of train or from a building. It leaves a horrible mess and traumatizes people who are forced to see it.

I don't really agree with people who have young children who want to commit suicide. If you create a child, then unless you have signed away your parental rights (adoption for example) it is your obligation to take care of them to adulthood. Why create life and not take responsibility for it?

Suicide is permanent and that is why people who want to commit suicide should have permanent, solid reasons to commit suicide and painless, safe ways to commit suicide.

The right to live logically implies the right to die. So why aren't people allowed to choose the way they want to die? The antis will say "But it's so selfish!". What is more selfish to me is to force a suffering person to live a long miserable existence for your benefit. People have the right to control their own bodies.

I feel that anyone over the age of 18 should be allowed to commit physician-assisted euthanasia porvided that they fulfil the following criteria:

- They are 18 or older
- Their reasons for wanting to die are permanent
- They get their affairs in order i.e. write a will, find good homes for their pets, return borrowed items (I lend towards obsessive-compulsive haha), make sure they have money for their burial/cremation, etc.

I think even an otherwise physically healthy adult should be permitted to peacefully commit suicide for philosophical reasons. (Weary of life, doesn't see the point in existence)

I wonder how the anti-suicide crowd would feel if a homeless, STD-infected prostitute without family or friends decided she wanted to end her own life. Would they still say "Your life is precious, please don't do it"?
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Windham County, VT
10,627 posts, read 4,948,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StabbyAbby View Post
People have the right to control their own bodies.
Agree with your post, you won't get any argument from me
I cannot explain/justify a line of belief that I do not share,
so can't speak for anybody else's objections to suicide.
So long as I'm *not* infringing on other folks' rights,
it makes no sense to arbitrarily impose limitations upon
when/how I operate (or shut down) my own body/existence.
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:34 PM
 
1,108 posts, read 1,820,584 times
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No argument here either. My mother is 84, overall in good health with a few issues you would have with 84 years on you. She repeatedly has said she should have died three years ago--not that anything happened three years ago--she just feels she's done. My dad died 13 years ago. All four of her kids are raised, married, with kids of their own. I think she's just done, and doesn't want to face the decline that will inevitably pick up speed. Of course she's Catholic, so I don't think she'd take advantage of suicide if it was an option.
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Whittier
3,007 posts, read 5,109,300 times
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To answer the title of your post: because I think there's a lot more grey area here than just "temporary" and "permanent" reasons.

That and people who do commit suicide, although I wouldn't say selfish, aren't or don't have the mental capacity at the time, to make that decision. If anything the pain they are feeling, emotional or physical, is making that decision for them.

...and they usually don't get their things in order before hand.

--

Some of that pain can be curable or manageable, and sometimes it isn't.

For those that is manageable, or that is in the grey area, we need to do all we can to keep those people from making a mistake. A mistake that can never be undone.

Logically if we err on preserving life (in cases of suicide) we can potentially save more lives that should be saved then if we were to just say, "Go on, do it."

The straw man of: If all of these conditions are met, then go ahead and kill yourself, just doesn't fly in the real world.
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Old 05-30-2013, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Australia
1,058 posts, read 1,450,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harhar View Post
To answer the title of your post: because I think there's a lot more grey area here than just "temporary" and "permanent" reasons.

That and people who do commit suicide, although I wouldn't say selfish, aren't or don't have the mental capacity at the time, to make that decision. If anything the pain they are feeling, emotional or physical, is making that decision for them.

...and they usually don't get their things in order before hand.

--

Some of that pain can be curable or manageable, and sometimes it isn't.

For those that is manageable, or that is in the grey area, we need to do all we can to keep those people from making a mistake. A mistake that can never be undone.

Logically if we err on preserving life (in cases of suicide) we can potentially save more lives that should be saved then if we were to just say, "Go on, do it."

The straw man of: If all of these conditions are met, then go ahead and kill yourself, just doesn't fly in the real world.
What are right and wrong reasons to commit suicide in your opinion?
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Old 05-30-2013, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Whittier
3,007 posts, read 5,109,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StabbyAbby View Post
What are right and wrong reasons to commit suicide in your opinion?
I don't know.

I can't speak absolutely but if I were injured very badly, and felt I wasn't going to make it, perhaps I'd consider suicide. But even just typing this now, rationally, I think about my wife and how I would want to continue, if only for her. Or my parents that are still alive. As an only son, if I were gone, how that would affect them.

So I don't know until I am put in that situation. Rationally, no; in pain, maybe.

But I was speaking generally, and generally I think it's best that suicide should be something that is avoided if only to protect the ones who are just "dabbling."

---

Existentially, to continue in the face of or in spite of "the end" is what, in part, defines our existence. This is easy to say for me, as I'm not suffering with extreme pain, mentally or physically, but again in general, I think that living, as somewhat of an existentialist, is preferable and would be an argument against a "Philosophical" reason to end one's life.

In the end though, I'm not going to chastise people who have made the decision to commit suicide, especially if they are older, or under some sort of duress, but it's most likely not the road I will take.
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Old 05-30-2013, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,089,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harhar View Post
...if I were injured very badly, and felt I wasn't going to make it, perhaps I'd consider suicide. But even just typing this now, rationally, I think about my wife and how I would want to continue, if only for her. Or my parents that are still alive. As an only son, if I were gone, how that would affect them.
I think those are all important to consider but your decision would depend on your degree of disability, prospects of recovery, and the amount of effort, pain and money involved in said recovery. Also the degree to which it will lower the quality of other people's lives. If your wife had a job she had to quit to sling bedpans for you 24/7 because you can't afford a licensed practical nurse, you might feel badly about that even if she doesn't (yet) mind doing so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harhar View Post
In the end though, I'm not going to chastise people who have made the decision to commit suicide, especially if they are older, or under some sort of duress, but it's most likely not the road I will take.
That is a good live-and-let-live attitude. Having been personally acquainted with a couple of rational suicides, I know those people would thank you for respecting their personal decisions and not lumping them in with lovesick teenagers and roaring drunks.
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Old 05-30-2013, 05:46 PM
 
10,542 posts, read 15,618,858 times
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There is a great book by Mikhail Bulgakov, Master and Margarita.
Part of it is amazing story of the last day of Christ.
That line starts with Pontius Pilate judgement of Christ.
During the interrogation, Pilate says:
Beware, philosopher, as I can cut the string your miserable life is hanging on, at any moment!
To which Christ responds:
Hegemon, are you the one who suspended my life on that thread? As sure enough, you are not, then you are not the one who can cut it.

Sapientis sat.
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Old 05-30-2013, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Whittier
3,007 posts, read 5,109,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I think those are all important to consider but your decision would depend on your degree of disability, prospects of recovery, and the amount of effort, pain and money involved in said recovery. Also the degree to which it will lower the quality of other people's lives. If your wife had a job she had to quit to sling bedpans for you 24/7 because you can't afford a licensed practical nurse, you might feel badly about that even if she doesn't (yet) mind doing so.
I guess these are all things to consider, but this choice gives others the choice to leave or to stop caring for me on their terms. Also again, this would or should be thought through (by everyone) with their spouse or SO before something like this happens.

It could also be the case that I could survive and make a full recovery.

In the "worst" case though, does death trump burden? I don't know. And it again accentuates how complicated this can be.

---

Also your point raises the ironic fact that all choices we make (in this matter) are or could be labeled as selfish. No matter what we choose, our choice seems to impact others regardless.
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Old 05-30-2013, 10:51 PM
 
Location: TOVCCA
8,452 posts, read 11,451,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StabbyAbby View Post
What are right and wrong reasons to commit suicide in your opinion?
A right reason would be to save others, such as jumping on a hand grenade in war, or if you carried a highly communicable fatal disease.
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