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Old 06-09-2013, 11:32 AM
 
2,963 posts, read 2,729,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
So glad to be here rather than any religion section. Whew.
The concepts, ridiculous to me, that people hang onto are amazing and seem to cause so much suffering!!

Where to start?
We are meant to be happy from birth to death.
Why is this simple truth, concept, idea missed by so many reading the Bible?

Hell doesn't exist...hellish places, sure, the individual creates for himself do.
So stop creating them...filled with guilt, worry, fear, jealousy, anger, having to be right....come on....
Don't worry, be happy.
Be here now in the moment.
Enjoy.
Live and let live.
Believe and receive.
Ask and it is given.
Be kind, love, give.

We are meant to be free and happy.
(On the Christian threads there is so much angst and fear based concepts, oy vey!)

Nice to affirm this and get it out to maybe inspire someone.
I don't want to take away the pain I see 'over there'....they can have it until like
Jonathon Livingston Seagull their heads rise above the rest of the crowd and fly higher!
I recently perused a topic you started and rather than responding in the religion Christianity section realized it would most likely be misinterpreted.

Here's the problem I have trying to speak with most overly religious types in a forum.

1) They generally ascribe to a mentality of 'my god's better than your god'. That is, based upon their selective interpretation of historical writings a few thousand years old, decide to select one sects interpretation without ever considering, let alone have knowledge, of another groups interpretation. Thus, most conversation is futile. Sort of like arguing sports with a drunk person - they have a narrow dogmatic worldview from which they cannot break. Think of it spatially as religions provide the nine dots in the famous nine dot exercise in order to connect the dots one has to go outside the boundaries (the religions establish) to find greater truths.

2) Basic agreed upon interpretive methods that anyone reading historical documents would apply to find the most accurate meaning, are frequently neglected and selectively cherry picked to make sense of something in todays 21st century world or as a foundational underpinning driving their worldview. This is not to say the principles of social behavioral constructs that were trying to be imparted are not significant but rather that it is very arbitrary.

3) The concepts too many Christians are neglectful of applying are:
Historian Fallacy: looking at historical events through a contemporary prism versus what it meant in its historical context and the then known understanding of the world at all levels of knowledge.
Translation Fallacy: interpreting ancient writings outside of their original audience' linguistic, grammatical, and cultural context. For example, the bible consists of Poetry, Allegory, Metaphorical, Apochryphal and other styles of prose.
Survivorship Bias: winners/ survivors of conflicts over time write the history with their own prejudices
Impact Bias: the very choosing of which events to historically report on / record for posterity, places extra weighted emphasis on some aspects of historical relevance to detriment of a 'holistic' view.

4) When people start to understand religions and their development as an overriding tool for establishing a social behavioral conditioning construct and look at them in that way, it often makes more sense. In other words, rather than focusing on arbitrary one off interpretations to fit some prescribed dogmatic interpretation look at the overarching themes.

Mark Twain's, short story Captain Stormfield's Visit To Heaven, and H.L. Mencken's, Treatise On The Gods, are very insightful to help philosophically understand religion's role.

I think if most people had an open dialogue on acceptable behavioral social constructs probably 80% of people would concur on basic behaviors irrespective of religious labels. The issues of inhospitable relations are mostly inculcated and promoted by elitist self proclaimed 'shepherds' to foment conflict controversy and to keep the flocks well 'herded' .
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,743,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalite View Post
I'm Christian, yes. It's not something I'm ashamed of. But I understand and it's missed because it's too simple. Those who have had encounters with The Divine know...He's actually pretty cool! Well, He's indescribable albeit love, but the ego thrives in a "have and have not" way and it's learned to function with the perceived mindset of lack. You know this. If you have, then another cannot have, is the way the ego mind works and if another has, then you do NOT have. It's that's constant striving to one up, to have more, to know more, to be more than our peers. And if you read the Bible from that perception, it will always be used to bolster your ego and make you seem better than others.

What I find interesting, personally, is the way logic works. It always seems to me that emotions are far stronger than logic so much so that even the most seemingly logical people, when their emotions are evoked strongly enough will then come up with "logical" reasons to justify their perception. I feel this way about all people regardless of religion. Our experiences shape the way we view the world a great deal and inspires what we consider to be "logical". Like to me, because of my experiences with God and the positive impact it has had on my life, it just makes sense to believe in Him. I'd be liar if I said I didn't or that He didn't because...well...He is! But to those who haven't had any experiences and who have become bitter by their experiences with religion or even those who have found security in their respective religions, it just makes sense to them to behave and act the way they do, to say the things they say and they'll find "logical" arguments to bolster their claims. This is what they believe and it's "simple" to them to follow it and even to put that on others. This actually gives them a sense of happiness and satisfaction when they've found a convert or someone they can influence.

But it's all over chica. Not just in religion. Many of us just aren't there yet.
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,743,656 times
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Modern American Christianity has come down to people shouting "USA! USA!" It's practiced much like a sport. I'm not playing that game.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:22 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 6,638,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalite View Post
It's possible that to the OP the meaning of life, which is a question often asked when searching for universal truth is to "be happy". Allow people to ask their own philosophical questions and find their own answers without being a sophist, trying to tell people along what lines they should think.
Yes, but she doesn't frame it that way. She seems to me to be speaking of self evident truths not opinions she has come to by some other means than evolution.

But that's the heart of philosophy I think. One shouldn't except truths based upon intuition unless you really really think that but then why be in this forum?

If there is something behind her beliefs, I think it would add value to list them. Or this could just be a Christian bashing thread but one doesn't need to state their beliefs as truth in order to do that.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,130 posts, read 11,998,568 times
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Hey, if someone's philosophy is that life is a continual struggle..
Then I am sorry I brought up the topic.
If their philosophy is that life is to be enjoyed...I'll have a few beers with them.
(If they are an athiest or Sikh, male or female.)

Nothing too complicated here.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:14 PM
 
1,765 posts, read 2,431,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
Yes, but she doesn't frame it that way. She seems to me to be speaking of self evident truths not opinions she has come to by some other means than evolution.

But that's the heart of philosophy I think. One shouldn't except truths based upon intuition unless you really really think that but then why be in this forum?

If there is something behind her beliefs, I think it would add value to list them. Or this could just be a Christian bashing thread but one doesn't need to state their beliefs as truth in order to do that.
I feel that for much of this it would be wise to ask Miss Hepburn for stories of her own personal experiences on the matter to perhaps express why she feels the way she does, why she believes as she does? What led her to this so as to get further clarification.

I don't feel that her approach is imposing. One thing I know is that Miss Hepburn is sharing what she believes to be true and if this is the case then there will be conviction behind what she says, though, not something we should feel threatened by.

This is her personal truth, something which she has shared, something which many of us might not have examined for ourselves or have and come up with different reasons. Either way, the reason for being on this forum is discussion, a way of examining and sharing what we've found to be true for ourselves and perhaps even expounding (and expanding) upon it.
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Hopewell Va.
257 posts, read 256,597 times
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To have no negative view upon things is unrealistic. An atom is made up of not only a positive,but a negative as well: )
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,130 posts, read 11,998,568 times
Reputation: 16543
I dunno Royalite...my view or take on this short little life
is probably very threatening to many.

I am sorry to have brought it up tho...people don't really need to hear
about undebatable proclamations on a Forum. Maybe on a blog?

If they were interested in things that made them happier or inspired...
They could click onto an Adyashanti youtube.

I'll ck back, but it was wrong of me...to proclam life was meant to be enjoyed.
Ha, that sounds funny...but I mean it....lol!
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:25 AM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
15,130 posts, read 11,998,568 times
Reputation: 16543
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscombobulateYa View Post
To have no negative view upon things is unrealistic.
An atom is made up of not only a positive,but a negative as well: )
That sounds logical, I must say.

But, if a negative thought (unkind, wanting to bomb my neighbor) pops in my head I
recognize it for what it is and banish it...usually with a laugh and a, "Nice try."

Or if a, "That guy is like sooo boring, I can't listen to him another second."
I follow it with a, " Well, we are all learning and he's probably a sweet guy.
Einstein would feel the same about me."
I have to cancel out the "negative"....I don't "own" or identify with my negative thoughts.

It's ike the old saying, Thoughts are like birds flying overhead,
You can't control them, but you certainly have control over one making
a nest in your hair!


I ramble here.... some may see negative views... I see I made an observation and then a choice...
I went to 2 Services Sunday...a 9 and down the street a 10:30...I was experimenting...
Don't think I will be back...one spoke on loneliness (I felt lonely once...for maybe 15 min to
observe it, exactly 35 yrs ago).
The next one talked so much about fear, our fear...which I have none...both were not
only negative to me, but tried to lay on my subconscious mind that these feelings were
"Normal"....well, they are not to ME....and I won't let that talk into my mind...certainly not from
a religious speaker/teacher.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:37 AM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
5,676 posts, read 6,747,035 times
Reputation: 10232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
...it was wrong of me...to proclam life was meant to be enjoyed.
Yes, quite.

'Life' wasn't/isn't 'meant' to be anything, it simply is. Whether one enjoys it or not, is mostly up to the individual (discounting negative effects by persons or events beyond our control).

As for the rest of your OP (hell, etc.), I am reminded of the lines from 'Amazing Grace':

"'Twas Grace that taught my heart to fear,
and Grace my fears relieved"

which seems to me to be the crux of the problem with some religions, particularly xtian- invent a problem, then proclaim that you have the 'solution', as a method of controlling the populace.
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