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Old 09-12-2013, 09:04 AM
 
19,078 posts, read 21,926,769 times
Reputation: 13432

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StabbyAbby View Post
From where I'm standing, most college-educated people do have 1 or 2 kids. They usually have kids in their 30s or 40s, so it just seems like there's a declining birth rate when it's really just delayed later in life.
Both here and in Europe it's an actual decline. Population growth is now dependent on immigration in a number countries.

Quote:
It's true that most childfree people are educated but most educated people aren't childfree.

I don't have a problem with intelligent, educated people having children at all, although it seems strange to me for a woman to spend 4-10 years gaining an education only to become a housewife/SAHM for 5-12 years. Why bother if they're not going to use it? How would they pay off their student loans? By the time the child is old enough and semi-independent/independent, the woman's knowledge will be out of date and she will need to do some retraining in addition to competing with younger people in the same field who do not have a huge gap in their employment history.
I'm a mom and a scientist, so I put in lots of time towards my education. Honestly, I would prefer to stay home with my kid, but that's not what would be best for my family. I didn't know this was going to happen, but my career is not as important to me as it was just 5 months ago. Maybe my feelings will change in the future. Now my dh and I work opposite hours to suit our daughter. Anyhow, most professional women continue to work.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:07 AM
 
41 posts, read 39,097 times
Reputation: 73
I wish the best for you and for your daughter. I hope she never tells you that she regrets being born.
Good luck for you too. All can be fine in your life now, but you never know when things can change.
As I said before, everything in life is unpredictable...You can be here tomorrow begging for sympathy...
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:27 AM
 
19,078 posts, read 21,926,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorees View Post
I wish the best for you and for your daughter. I hope she never tells you that she regrets being born.
Good luck for you too. All can be fine in your life now, but you never know when things can change.
As I said before, everything in life is unpredictable...You can be here tomorrow begging for sympathy...
I wish you the best as well and hope you find your way.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:37 AM
 
30 posts, read 24,370 times
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Lorees you have a very good point on the immorality of procreation. Having kids is indeed immoral.
But antinatalism is impratical and unhappily it's impossible to criminalize procreation.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
2,311 posts, read 3,611,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
True on the surface but then again, life isn't all about the individual, is it?

Who knows how many potential Einsteins, Mozarts, Picassos or Leonardo Davincis we don't have in the world already because of the decisions made by couples to enjoy themselves instead of suffering a little to bring a kid or two into the world.

A unborn person may not feel anything but the human race as a whole would be deprived of future great minds and the things they could have accomplished, even if their parents were dinks.

What you seem to not comprehend is that the ultimate goal for many is to see human extinction.
This makes any future person of genius in a any filed of science, industry, the arts, etc a moot issue.

Human extinction is exactly that, nothing.

In the movie The Matrix Agent Smith spoke to Morpheus concerning human existence which makes a great deal of logical sense.

Agent Smith -"" I'd like to share a revelation that Iíve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species, and I realized that humans are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment; but you humans do not. Instead you multiply, and multiply, until every resource is consumed. The only way for you to survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern... a virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer on this planet. ""


As much as those that are driven to procreate deny this fact, it is the truth.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Australia
1,058 posts, read 1,450,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
Both here and in Europe it's an actual decline. Population growth is now dependent on immigration in a number countries.


I'm a mom and a scientist, so I put in lots of time towards my education. Honestly, I would prefer to stay home with my kid, but that's not what would be best for my family. I didn't know this was going to happen, but my career is not as important to me as it was just 5 months ago. Maybe my feelings will change in the future. Now my dh and I work opposite hours to suit our daughter. Anyhow, most professional women continue to work.
Well, parts of North America and Europe are overcrowded anyway. A lot of people choose not to have children because they cannot afford it. Populations naturally rise and fall. I have never hear of any population which peacefully died out because people weren't producing enough children. When the population is lower, the cost of living will become cheaper as supply outweighs demand and that will encourage couples to have children and the population will rise again. Most people want kids for one reason or another. Anyway, quality over quantity.


Interesting. What field do you specialise in?
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,214,711 times
Reputation: 14007
Quote:
Originally Posted by julian17033 View Post
What you seem to not comprehend is that the ultimate goal for many is to see human extinction.
This makes any future person of genius in a any filed of science, industry, the arts, etc a moot issue.

Human extinction is exactly that, nothing.

In the movie The Matrix Agent Smith spoke to Morpheus concerning human existence which makes a great deal of logical sense.

Agent Smith -"" I'd like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species, and I realized that humans are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment; but you humans do not. Instead you multiply, and multiply, until every resource is consumed. The only way for you to survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern... a virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer on this planet. ""


As much as those that are driven to procreate deny this fact, it is the truth.
I didn't know an old hollywood movie was actually the official destiny for all humanity.

If you see agent Smith, tell him there is yet another creature that follows the same pattern... every other life form on the planet! Deer, for example don't stop breeding and eating because they worry about the balance of nature; the "balance" is incidental to various creatures competing with and eating each other.

Humans are animals too, and while we've been wildly successful, we'll eventually come up against our natural limits too, that much is true.

... But that doesn't mean automatic extinction, only "winter kill". Besides that, there is always the potential to continue expanding... It's a big universe and technology is developing rapidly.

One question though... if you really hate humanity THAT much, what else would you be?

Damn there are some sick, disturbed and hateful people posting on this thread!
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:10 PM
 
19,078 posts, read 21,926,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StabbyAbby View Post
Well, parts of North America and Europe are overcrowded anyway. A lot of people choose not to have children because they cannot afford it. Populations naturally rise and fall. I have never hear of any population which peacefully died out because people weren't producing enough children. When the population is lower, the cost of living will become cheaper as supply outweighs demand and that will encourage couples to have children and the population will rise again. Most people want kids for one reason or another. Anyway, quality over quantity.
Sure, they're over crowded. It's who they are and aren't over crowded with that's at issue as far as the population debate goes IMO. In the US even it's specific segments who are having the most children. There's no reason that should set a cap for those outside that demographic. Anyhow, we're only having one because what we want to provide for our daughter might not be feasible with more children. I don't think any person in this thread or elsewhere has the right or wherewithal to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing with my choices just as I would never tell anyone else the same.
Quote:
Interesting. What field do you specialise in?
Early drug discovery- physiochemist. My husband's background is chemistry as well.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:17 PM
 
2,759 posts, read 3,426,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
So you're God then. You've decided the course of human existence for all mankind and determined it unfit to continue. When can we expect your 40 days and 40 nights of rain, sans any human presence on the Ark of course?

Here are a few hints for you. You were never promised a rose garden, life isn't fair and there are no guarantees. It's often those challenges that make living it worthwhile.
Since when do challenges make living worthwhile? Sometimes challenges drain people. Some people get overloaded with them. That's not living; that's crap. I have more graphic words for it, but not in polite company.

Life isn't supposed to be problem-free, but too many of them makes life damn ridiculous sometimes. Sometimes I throw up my hands, say "Whatever", grab some chocolate (or a drink), and then peace of mind comes. Eventually, things get sorted out, maybe not completely to my liking, but at least they get sorted out. Hell, I'll take what I can get.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Australia
1,058 posts, read 1,450,998 times
Reputation: 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
Sure, they're over crowded. It's who they are and aren't over crowded with that's at issue as far as the population debate goes IMO. In the US even it's specific segments who are having the most children. There's no reason that should set a cap for those outside that demographic. Anyhow, we're only having one because what we want to provide for our daughter might not be feasible with more children. I don't think any person in this thread or elsewhere has the right or wherewithal to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing with my choices just as I would never tell anyone else the same.

Early drug discovery- physiochemist. My husband's background is chemistry as well.
Parents of one child families are usually more educated, intelligent, mature and financially stable.

You sound like good people. Your daughter has a bright future with two scientists as parents.
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