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Old 09-12-2013, 01:01 PM
 
41 posts, read 39,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lira2 View Post
Lorees you have a very good point on the immorality of procreation. Having kids is indeed immoral.
But antinatalism is impratical and unhappily it's impossible to criminalize procreation.
As I said before, It's something for future generations to consider. At that time,probably most people will be freed of their delusions for life.
Sometimes it's even pointless to talk about this subject. People are profoundly deluded and in denial of reality.

People are always optimistic about this hellish world we live in. Optimism is insanity and this insanity confers a survival advantage. There are always an infinite number of ways in which things can go wrong, but very few in which they can go right. So, there might be some explanation for so much optimism.

We all carry pre-Darwinian illusions about life being amazing in our heads. The universe is a chaotic place and we strive try to create order out of chaos,we have all odds against us from the beggining.

Most people like their lives because I think this feeling comes as courtesy of psychological strategies taken in combination with hormonal balance.Cultivating delusions is a part of being humaan. These strategies make us artificially happy when by rights we ought to feel wretched. In the end we all only take on as much reality as we can deal with comfortably.
Our hormones usually override actual experience and, at some point or other,most people feel that it's a good idea to have children.

Surely there are no reasons to think that life is going to be an enjoyable experience, it's only that if you do you might feel better about getting through it, and may have kids who will keep this senseless perpetual circle going.

Last edited by Lorees; 09-12-2013 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:06 PM
 
6,040 posts, read 4,443,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorees View Post
Some people will create miserable children. Allowing people to procreate is allowing that some people will be harmed by procreation. Harm by definition is suffering that could have been prevented or avoided.
There are always risks. Hence procreation should be generally criminalized.
What doesn't carry a risk?

Oh, and your definition of harm? Way off.
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:11 PM
 
41 posts, read 39,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elhelmete View Post
What doesn't carry a risk?

Oh, and your definition of harm? Way off.
To take a risk you need a consent. Parents bring kids to this ****ing world without consenting their innocent children.
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorees View Post
this ****ing world
Answers my question. Good luck to you.
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Old 09-12-2013, 02:35 PM
 
19,078 posts, read 21,923,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StabbyAbby View Post
Parents of one child families are usually more educated, intelligent, mature and financially stable.

You sound like good people. Your daughter has a bright future with two scientists as parents.
Thank you. Life is good. I'm fortunate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorees View Post
As I said before, It's something for future generations to consider. At that time,probably most people will be freed of their delusions for life.
Sometimes it's even pointless to talk about this subject. People are profoundly deluded and in denial of reality.

People are always optimistic about this hellish world we live in. Optimism is insanity and this insanity confers a survival advantage. There are always an infinite number of ways in which things can go wrong, but very few in which they can go right. So, there might be some explanation for so much optimism.

We all carry pre-Darwinian illusions about life being amazing in our heads. The universe is a chaotic place and we strive try to create order out of chaos,we have all odds against us from the beggining.

Most people like their lives because I think this feeling comes as courtesy of psychological strategies taken in combination with hormonal balance.Cultivating delusions is a part of being humaan. These strategies make us artificially happy when by rights we ought to feel wretched. In the end we all only take on as much reality as we can deal with comfortably.
Our hormones usually override actual experience and, at some point or other,most people feel that it's a good idea to have children.

Surely there are no reasons to think that life is going to be an enjoyable experience, it's only that if you do you might feel better about getting through it, and may have kids who will keep this senseless perpetual circle going.
If you understand that happiness and optimism is due to biochemistry, and it certainly is, then you must also understand that your dispair and hopelessness is also due to biochemistry. It's irrational to say the latter trumps the former.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:21 PM
 
41 posts, read 39,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
Thank you. Life is good. I'm fortunate.


If you understand that happiness and optimism is due to biochemistry, and it certainly is, then you must also understand that your dispair and hopelessness is also due to biochemistry. It's irrational to say the latter trumps the former.
But you have to understand that there are no biases for pessimism. Pessimism has no survival value.
If you were devoid of all your biases for life you would certainly have a rational outlook.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Mesa, AZ
451 posts, read 628,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorees View Post
But you have to understand that there are no biases for pessimism.
I guess you've never seen an Emo kid lol.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:54 PM
 
19,078 posts, read 21,923,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorees View Post
But you have to understand that there are no biases for pessimism. Pessimism has no survival value.
If you were devoid of all your biases for life you would certainly have a rational outlook.
You have no idea if pessimism has no survival value. Any person could easily make the argument. And it's impossible to be devoid of biases. In order to be devoid of biases you would have to first remove all of your life experiences and then second, remove your brain. Good luck with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRedhead View Post
I guess you've never seen an Emo kid lol.
There you go!
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:10 PM
 
41 posts, read 39,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
You have no idea if pessimism has no survival value. Any person could easily make the argument. And it's impossible to be devoid of biases. In order to be devoid of biases you would have to first remove all of your life experiences and then second, remove your brain. Good luck with that.

There you go!
No. Like everyone else I also have optimistic biases. I still have hope that someday everything is going to get better. That's why I keep going on. If I wasn't a bit optimistic I would've already killed myself.

And to overcome your biases you should just use your brain to reason. Use logic and reason to think about the ultimate sanity of self-preservation and reproduction.
But of course I bet you don't want to do it. You are too busy indulging in sensual gratification.
As long as you are having fun, nothing else matters.
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Old 09-12-2013, 04:24 PM
 
6,040 posts, read 4,443,353 times
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"Thinking, Fast and Slow" is an excellent read for learning how biases work within us. That book and "The Antidote."

One thing I gleaned from them both is that what some might call 'pessimism' does indeed have what you're calling survival value, but more importantly (to me) that 'pessimism' and 'optimism' are social/cultural constructs and not objective states.
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