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Old 09-12-2013, 04:39 PM
 
19,078 posts, read 21,918,909 times
Reputation: 13432

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorees View Post
No. Like everyone else I also have optimistic biases. I still have hope that someday everything is going to get better. That's why I keep going on. If I wasn't a bit optimistic I would've already killed myself.
Who are you saying no to and about what? I don't recall asking you a question or mentioning whether or not you have optimism.

Quote:
And to overcome your biases you should just use your brain to reason. Use logic and reason to think about the ultimate sanity of self-preservation and reproduction.
But of course I bet you don't want to do it. You are too busy indulging in sensual gratification.
As long as you are having fun, nothing else matters.
Well, sure I'm indulging in sensual gratification. It's one of the nicer things about being biological. And you have no idea how to overcome your biases. You are tethered, enslaved to your biases. And let's be clear on something-logic and reason have no role in your argument.
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:45 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,502,154 times
Reputation: 29076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorees View Post
You don't even have argumentation. When you can't refute my arguments you come with "This is your point of view", "Your opinion holds no value to anyone". Try to address my points instead.
Here's a thought. Why don't you try addressing mine?
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Old 09-13-2013, 05:17 AM
 
41 posts, read 39,067 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
Who are you saying no to and about what? I don't recall asking you a question or mentioning whether or not you have optimism.

Well, sure I'm indulging in sensual gratification. It's one of the nicer things about being biological. And you have no idea how to overcome your biases. You are tethered, enslaved to your biases. And let's be clear on something-logic and reason have no role in your argument.
"Who are you saying no to and about what? I don't recall asking you a question or mentioning whether or not you have optimism."

I wanted to say that we have none or only mininal pessimistic biases. It's illogical to believe that we have strong pessimistic biases because pessimism confers no survival advantage. We all have strong optimistic biases, as you can see, even someone like me is still optimistic.

"Well, sure I'm indulging in sensual gratification. It's one of the nicer things about being biological. And you have no idea how to overcome your biases. You are tethered, enslaved to your biases. And let's be clear on something-logic and reason have no role in your argument"

You want to be enslaved because you are comfortable this way. You are fine with your comforting delusions for life. We are all unresonably and illogically optimistic by nature. Start to think what is the reason to be so optimistic in a chaotic world full of suffering and with all odds against us. Think of how logical is to bring another human to a world full of suffering when you can't absolutely know what may fall upon his life.
Having kids is the most serious decision someone will make. It should be made only by rational considerations alone.
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Old 09-13-2013, 05:19 AM
 
41 posts, read 39,067 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Here's a thought. Why don't you try addressing mine?
What is your argument?
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Old 09-13-2013, 05:36 AM
 
41 posts, read 39,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elhelmete View Post
"Thinking, Fast and Slow" is an excellent read for learning how biases work within us. That book and "The Antidote."

One thing I gleaned from them both is that what some might call 'pessimism' does indeed have what you're calling survival value, but more importantly (to me) that 'pessimism' and 'optimism' are social/cultural constructs and not objective states.
Partially. We live in a society that strongly affirms life. We are all brainwashed to think that life is undeniably good under any circumstance, and having children is laudable, beautiful and justified.
We are educated to be proud of being optimistic, and pessimism is something to be ashamed of.

I think it's time to make an independent research.
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:28 AM
 
19,078 posts, read 21,918,909 times
Reputation: 13432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorees View Post
"Who are you saying no to and about what? I don't recall asking you a question or mentioning whether or not you have optimism."

I wanted to say that we have none or only mininal pessimistic biases. It's illogical to believe that we have strong pessimistic biases because pessimism confers no survival advantage.
Really, expecting and believing the worst will happen is uncommon among humans? You cannot see that lending to survival strategies for early humans and modern humans? Our major religions are fear based. Our industrial military complex is fear based. I think doom and gloom comes quite naturally. Problems arise when it's taken to extremes.

Quote:
You want to be enslaved because you are comfortable this way. You are fine with your comforting delusions for life. We are all unresonably and illogically optimistic by nature. Start to think what is the reason to be so optimistic in a chaotic world full of suffering and with all odds against us. Think of how logical is to bring another human to a world full of suffering when you can't absolutely know what may fall upon his life.
Having kids is the most serious decision someone will make. It should be made only by rational considerations alone.
I make my decisions carefully and I am informed. I research for a living so I am quite comfortable with my decisions. And even tho there is no 100% guarantee in life I have 100% faith in myself to manage the challenges that my family will face through out our lives because I take responsibility for it.
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:48 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,502,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorees View Post
What is your argument?
Go back to post #s 212 and 218.
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:55 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,502,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soda120 View Post
Since when do challenges make living worthwhile? Sometimes challenges drain people. Some people get overloaded with them. That's not living; that's crap. I have more graphic words for it, but not in polite company.

Life isn't supposed to be problem-free, but too many of them makes life damn ridiculous sometimes. Sometimes I throw up my hands, say "Whatever", grab some chocolate (or a drink), and then peace of mind comes. Eventually, things get sorted out, maybe not completely to my liking, but at least they get sorted out. Hell, I'll take what I can get.
When you overcome challenges it strengthens you and also boosts your confidence. If nothing else they make life interesting. Believe me, 67 years of life is decidedly a challenge and it took a lot to get here.

It's almost less the challenge and more your reaction to it. If chocolate and/or a drink are your response and they make the challenge go away, all well and good. I, however, prefer to meet challenges head-on, deal with them and lay them to rest. To each their own!
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Old 09-13-2013, 10:26 PM
 
2,759 posts, read 3,425,226 times
Reputation: 3087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
When you overcome challenges it strengthens you and also boosts your confidence. If nothing else they make life interesting. Believe me, 67 years of life is decidedly a challenge and it took a lot to get here.

It's almost less the challenge and more your reaction to it. If chocolate and/or a drink are your response and they make the challenge go away, all well and good. I, however, prefer to meet challenges head-on, deal with them and lay them to rest. To each their own!
I deal with them how I deal with them. Works for ME.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,488,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
Then procreation can also be the cause of joy. Besides if any of you really took issue with it, rather than just being typical, spoiled westerners, which I suspect is the case, then you wouldn't even be here to make the statements. I'm sure that sounds harsh, and I'm sorry for that. It's just how I see our society or at least aspects of it. We not only take so much for granted, but there is also an underlining theme of destruction and taking from others. You don't want it to just be over for you, but for everybody.
I personally think people should limit their offspring to one, or better, none because there are just too many of us on the planet.

I do think that there is a horrendous propaganda surrounding being prego and having kids. Almost every portrayal in the movies or on talk shows is just so much schmoozey bs and it is borderline nauseating. It really takes no brains to be pregnant and is not a great accomplishment. The kid could be a great inventor but he could also turn out a Charlie Manson. The state is certainly inconvenient. If most women could have the kid in a test tube rather than in their bodies, they probably would. If most women could afford a nanny to help raise the kid and a housekeeper they certainly would. I don't think most women REALLY want kids - I think it's a sort of social convention and weak minded people or those with little going on in their lives will easily bend that way.
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