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I find it quite disingenuous when people try and make excuses on how not having kids isn't selfish. Of course it's selfish! You're choosing not to have kids in order to benefit your own well being... how is that not selfish? No matter what excuse you make, it will still have a self-serving motive.
Our goal as a society is to continue procreating in order to sustain humanity. By not having kids, you're placing a burden on the rest of society to have kids in order to sustain humanity. In other words, you're choosing to have others do the hard work, while you enjoy the good life.
That's really what it boils down to. I am 28 and do not have children. Am I selfish? Absolutely.... I admit that I am. I'm living the peter-pan lifestyle while I can. I see other friends of mine stressed out about not getting sleep over their newborns and it makes me feel guilty in a way. Lets face it, kids are hard work, and definitely tend to rearrange your lifestyle.... some people accept that change, while others do not want any part of it.
I respect parents (at least the ones that genuinely wanted kids to begin with). I think they earn the right to call the rest of us selfish and self-centered because it is absolutely true.
Sorry to cut out a lot of your post. Thank you for your respect but, really, I don't think you are selfish at all. Having a child has been so difficult on us (even though we wanted children) that we truly believe you should have children only if you really want to.
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Originally Posted by psichick
Just an FYI. I posted this on another board, regarding why some people can handle adversity and others can't, when they both experience the same exact situation. It has nothing to do with how you're brought up or what you're taught, or how much love your parents gave you. It's written in our DNA. We're learning more and more about it. One long-term study showed outside factors had nothing to do with how one will handle situations.
Sorry to cut out your post as well. It is a good one. You are correct. Sometimes no matter how many skills or strategies we may teach our kids, they ultimately get to decide how to behave. The strategies and mental thought processes I go through when dealing with people works well for me. However, I do have to remember that I am an adult with many years experience and a strong interest in human relationships.
In the end, all I can really do for my child is to trust her and hold her responsible for her actions (oh, and think she is the greatest kid on Earth).
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Originally Posted by Lira2
It hasn't caused harm to her until now. How do you know with certainity that your daughter won't experience suffering in her life? Things can change anytime.
It doesn't mean that just because some people would enjoy life that others whose life, would be hell should pay the burden of existence and come to life to suffer. Remember what I said about empathy? You simply don't care if some people will be born to suffer as long as you are having your pleasurable experience. Look at how selfish you are being, only considering your pleasure when it comes to procreation.
You may be addressing a specific poster but from what I have experienced, if you want a solid relationship with your child, it takes work. The pleasure comes later from that hard work. It's not like all of us pop out kids and have instant pleasure. That was a hard lesson my husband and I learned.
As far as knowing with certainty that a child won't experience suffering in life, nobody really knows. Some suffering can be avoided but others cannot. The suffering we have no control over, we worry about it until it gets here.
If I didn't live in an apartment, I would rescue more animals. My cat is a rescue cat. I got him from a lady that rescues cats all the time. She has maybe 12 living with her and her husband (probably more now). Animals were not put here for the human race to mistreat. They feel pain just like we do.
Indeed they do. I don't know why people dismiss that. It's good to hear about folk taking care of animals in need. My mom has a lot of stray cats where she lives. They're too wild to be domesticated, but she captures them, gets them fixed (obviously they breed like crazy), and then lets them go again. Most hang around her house.
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I should have gone into a career in which I would have been working with animals instead of people. I would enjoy my job, not dread it.
How old are you? Why can't you do a career change?
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I do not condone using depression as an excuse to be mean and nasty to people. I do wish that non-depressed people would understand that not all of us hate life and are bitter malcontents.
Well, I think that's fleshed out in individual conversations. People are individuals and you certainly highlight that.
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You deserve to have a good life after what you've been through. Many could draw a lot of strength from what you've been through. It's beyond my capacity to know or understand how you did it.
Thanks. As you said, neuro-chemistry is likely a major player. Everything I have experienced in life is relative to my late twin. He suffered. I won't go into it, but his story is unbelievable.The stuff I experienced...eh, what does any of it really matter? I just couldn't take myself that seriously given everything my brother went through. And, I didn't have the challenges you have. If your chemistry is off that's that.
Indeed they do. I don't know why people dismiss that. It's good to hear about folk taking care of animals in need. My mom has a lot of stray cats where she lives. They're too wild to be domesticated, but she captures them, gets them fixed (obviously they breed like crazy), and then lets them go again. Most hang around her house.
I'm definitely a cat person. I actually rehabilitated a stray cat when I was younger and made her domesticated. It took a lot of patience and the establishment of trust, but eventually she stopped being scared. We took her in temporarily and successfully found her a home.
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How old are you? Why can't you do a career change?
I'm 23 next month.. I have undiagnosed ADD or something that makes classroom type learning very hard for me, so I never did the college thing.
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Well, I think that's fleshed out in individual conversations. People are individuals and you certainly highlight that.
Thanks. As you said, neuro-chemistry is likely a major player. Everything I have experienced in life is relative to my late twin. He suffered. I won't go into it, but his story is unbelievable.The stuff I experienced...eh, what does any of it really matter? I just couldn't take myself that seriously given everything my brother went through. And, I didn't have the challenges you have. If your chemistry is off that's that.
It's definitely brain chemistry. In my case, it's a little more complicated. My depression almost solely pertains to being unable to be who I should have been. It's no ones fault and I don't hate or blame the world for it, but it's a challenge not to be bitter and angry and to want to give up.
The vast majority of people really don't care if you have kids, why you do or don't have kids, or how you feel about those who do/don't have kids. Do what you want, be happy to be able to make your own choices, and let everyone else do the same.
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The vast majority of people who say no I have no children get the third degree about why you don't have children and oh, isn't your life so empty without children every time the subject comes up. In reality that is, in the outside of the internet world where people do ask those questions all of the time. Most people have children. I do not. I did not intend to have children when I was young, I do not intend to have children now. I went through my teen years with a girlfriend getting pregnant (and leaving me to be a teen) every year. Sure, we tried to stay friends, but the baby... And then there were my girlfriends who went out of their way to get pregnant young so that the baby would be a built in girlfriend in 15 years, babies having babies.
Am I selfish being without a child? As far as I can see the population is doing just fine. There are just as many blonde haired blue eyed babies out there as there are darker babies- maybe not as many, but enough to keep the gene pool satisfied.
Regarding the question of the thread, we can conclude that in fact, being childlfree is selfless while having children is selfish.
Exactly. I have found it to be true for myself that I am the only one who can truly look out for my own interests. Therefore, it is important for me to know what my interests are and to make sure that is what I want. It is selfishness.
I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding the meaning of "selfish".
Being selfish is when you are looking out for your own self-interest at someone else's expense.
Looking out for yourself (at no cost to anyone else) is not selfish in the truest sense of the word, although many people believe it to be so. If I have a painful medical condition and I take medication that makes me forget my pain, does that make me selfish? Of course not.
That being said, being childfree is not selfish in itself. No one OWES children to anyone. I will never have my own children. I don't care if the government needs taxpayers or cheap labor or soldiers, I don't care if there are infertile couples desperate to adopt a cute little baby, I don't care if the pope thinks birth control is sinful and evil. I simply do not want a life with children in it. That does not mean that I hate all children (although I do find them irritating more often than not) or that I wish them harm (I despise child abusers, especially rapists and molesters). I simply have no desire to experience motherhood. People need to understand that my decision to not have children is not an attack or challenge against their own decision to have children, just as someone's decision to get a tattoo is not an attack on other people's choices to be tattoo-free. It is my life to live and this is the right decision for me.
It's not as if humans as a whole have low birth rates anyway. People act like the human species is going extinct. It clearly isn't. Society is not going to crash and burn just because a tiny minority of people choose not to pass on their genes. Human reproduce like rabbits, even to their own disadvantage. Having 4 or more children when you can barely afford to look after yourself is incredibly stupid, yet it happens everyday.
I think a lot of people here are misunderstanding the meaning of "selfish".
Being selfish is when you are looking out for your own self-interest at someone else's expense.
Looking out for yourself (at no cost to anyone else) is not selfish in the truest sense of the word, although many people believe it to be so. If I have a painful medical condition and I take medication that makes me forget my pain, does that make me selfish? Of course not.
That being said, being childfree is not selfish in itself. No one OWES children to anyone. I will never have my own children. I don't care if the government needs taxpayers or cheap labor or soldiers, I don't care if there are infertile couples desperate to adopt a cute little baby, I don't care if the pope thinks birth control is sinful and evil. I simply do not want a life with children in it. That does not mean that I hate all children (although I do find them irritating more often than not) or that I wish them harm (I despise child abusers, especially rapists and molesters). I simply have no desire to experience motherhood. People need to understand that my decision to not have children is not an attack or challenge against their own decision to have children, just as someone's decision to get a tattoo is not an attack on other people's choices to be tattoo-free. It is my life to live and this is the right decision for me.
It's not as if humans as a whole have low birth rates anyway. People act like the human species is going extinct. It clearly isn't. Society is not going to crash and burn just because a tiny minority of people choose not to pass on their genes. Human reproduce like rabbits, even to their own disadvantage. Having 4 or more children when you can barely afford to look after yourself is incredibly stupid, yet it happens everyday.
Here is a definition of being selfish: having or showing concern only for yourself and not for the needs or feelings of other people.
Looking out for yourself at someone else's expense is selfish but probably much more. Something probably can be done about it especially if it is done at the expense of another person.
I guess I wouldn't call childfree selfish. I would simply call it looking out for your best interest.
Finally, something else you might want to consider- if you're clinically depressed then your perception of reality is skewed to an extent where it doesn't make sense to give advice to people who are not depressed. As someone else mentioned, you have a hammer and you're pounding pretty much everything. It doesn't work.
I was going to respond to the entire thing, but decided to comment on this part and say one last thing.
You do realize everyone's POV is skewed right? Your's, mine, the mentally healthy (whatever that means), the mentally ill. Everyone. No one has the same POV. Even the most positive people I have met, don't see eye to eye on things. And let's be real, I've been diagnosed with clinical depression and I give great advice to my non-depressed friends. Why? Because I'm also an empath and see things through their eyes and how they feel things and know what is a good route for them to think about taking, NOT because of who I am, but because of who they are. The best advice isn't about pushing your POV on another person, it's about helping them make choices based on their experiences, their lives, their values OR giving them options they never considered. I'm also an atheist, but I give great religious based advice (well, my friends say I do). Oh, I also have given great child-rearing advice because I have taken many courses in child development and had to do shadowing at daycares so I get why kids do certain things, and what things can work. I am no expert and am not saying I am. But just because I haven't experienced life like you do (general you), doesn't mean I can't give advice or help you out.
And as I back out of this part of the debate, you're right, it's none of my business how you live your life (unless it's illegal or poses a threat to another life).
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You obviously have children.
