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I just happened on this thread and I did read it in its entirety. It is clear to me that we cannot generalize about beggars because a lot of them are people in genuine need and a lot of them are scammers who have chosen begging as a way of life. How can we possibly know the percentages involved, even roughly?
What has really amazed me about this thread is the fairly large number of posters who profess not to care if their contributions are going to be used to buy cigarettes, alcohol, or drugs. Can someone explain that? Your (presumably) hard-earned money may be going to support someone's addiction(s) and that's perfectly O.K.?
Sure, from a philosophical standpoint it's hard to argue against people's right to self-destruct. I believe in individual freedom, so I have to believe in that right too. But why would I wish to contribute to another human being's self-destruction?
Some have argued that we have no right to judge others. Well I judge it sad and tragic if people have chosen (for example) to destroy their minds and bodies with meth, which makes your teeth rot among many other things. How is it possible to pretend that meth addiction has anything positive about it, or that we shouldn't make any judgment about it? By what tortuous reasoning and twisting of logic can we pretend that meth use is somehow O.K.? Or even that's is merely a "bad choice"? It's much worse than a bad choice; it's a horrible, destructive choice which reduces all the many possibilities of happiness and fulfillment to the satisfaction of getting one's fix when the craving strikes.
With what? I made more than one argument in that post, and you responded with just that which I've quoted, so I have no idea what, specifically, you were addressing. If it was the "nothing to work for" part, which I suppose comprised the main thrust of the post...well, in that case I think you need to explain yourself. Ever read EM Cioran? I'd venture to say that many of the best-known existentialists (Sartre, Camus, Cioran) had "subpar" work ethic (as conventionally defined...Sartre obviously read and wrote with great fervor, but I wouldn't call that exhibiting a strong "work ethic"...perhaps my definition is too biased towards manual labor) but a desire to survive. Like me, I guess. For now anyway.
I assumed you were talking about manual labor, though even still the absurdity of "work" such as this is the point of something as ubiquitous as the Myth of Sisyphus. You find passion in your own work, you don't kill yourself just because death is near; you take up arms and define yourself; and that usually comes with acting authentic and hard work.
That and, I highly doubt that any Philosopher got to where they were by not working hard.
--
Now working for "the other" is a bit different and it sounds like we agree more than we disagree, however I just don't have the time for manifestos right now.
Let's just say I'm an existentialist that values hard work.
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Matthew 7:1-3 KJV - Judge not, that ye be not judged. For - Bible Gateway
I understand why people have their beliefs and you don't have to do anything against your convictions. What I see in the world today saddens me deeply. I can't help everybody in need, but I certainly can use common sense and decency to help those who call out to my soul.
I just happened on this thread and I did read it in its entirety. It is clear to me that we cannot generalize about beggars because a lot of them are people in genuine need and a lot of them are scammers who have chosen begging as a way of life. How can we possibly know the percentages involved, even roughly?
What has really amazed me about this thread is the fairly large number of posters who profess not to care if their contributions are going to be used to buy cigarettes, alcohol, or drugs. Can someone explain that? Your (presumably) hard-earned money may be going to support someone's addiction(s) and that's perfectly O.K.?
Sure, from a philosophical standpoint it's hard to argue against people's right to self-destruct. I believe in individual freedom, so I have to believe in that right too. But why would I wish to contribute to another human being's self-destruction?
Some have argued that we have no right to judge others. Well I judge it sad and tragic if people have chosen (for example) to destroy their minds and bodies with meth, which makes your teeth rot among many other things. How is it possible to pretend that meth addiction has anything positive about it, or that we shouldn't make any judgment about it? By what tortuous reasoning and twisting of logic can we pretend that meth use is somehow O.K.? Or even that's is merely a "bad choice"? It's much worse than a bad choice; it's a horrible, destructive choice which reduces all the many possibilities of happiness and fulfillment to the satisfaction of getting one's fix when the craving strikes.
Also, another factor is that if you are ALMOST homeless and you knew that there was just this really negative stigma attached to people who give out money and you knew that it would be almost impossible to get a nickel off anyone, maybe you would think twice about "going down that path" in the first place.
Knowing that people will help just is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
I'm curious to see what everyone's personal philosophy is towards giving money to beggars. I'm not talking about volunteering at a soup kitchen or donating to a homeless advocacy organization here. I'm talking about giving to the homeless person standing holding a cardboard sign at the freeway exit ramp or the blind guy sitting next to the trash can at the subway station.
My personal philosophy is to only give to the disabled and sometimes the elderly depending on how frail they look. I used to give money to military veterans too, but after reading in the local paper about a frauds posing as Vietnam vets I stopped doing that. I absolutely do not give a cent to people who look like they have the physical and mental capacity to work. I can't tell you the number of times I've been asked for money by tall, muscular men who look more fit than I am. As far as what I give, usually it's about $2-$4, depending on what loose bills I have in my pocket as I never take out my wallet anywhere except to pay for something. I don't usually give change. It feels too demeaning to throw a few quarters into someone's cup, as if they were a water fountain or something like that. I don't give food, as that's usually not what they want. I could care less whether the person was going to spend that money on booze, drugs or prostitutes.
I have seen people pretending to be blind and begging for money, so I'm skeptical of beggars. I used to see a guy taking his crutches out of his bag and screwing them together in advance of rush hour at a train station. I also assume that most people asking for money are drug addicts, and I'm pretty confident that 99% of the time, I am correct. "I need money for a bus ticket home" is inexplicably used by so many of the young junkies who line the streets of Manhattan. Think of something more original, please. Actually, I DID see something original recently and it made me laugh. Three guys sit in Union Square in Manhattan with a can and a sign that says, "I am homeless, blah blah blah".
However, a few times I've still seen someone begging for money and something made me give. It's usually a spur of the moment decision.
I think that there is plenty of food available in our country, with soup kitchens, food stamps, food banks, that really, food deprivation is not an issue in this country. I have lived in large cities, and small rural towns, and there is always a shelter available with food, free of charge.
There is also dumpster diving for food. People throw more food away than you can believe in this country, it is staggering.
A veteran can go to any VA hospital, and get a voucher for a meal. But, not as an every day occurrence.
Children get free breakfast and lunch at school, I have worked at schools where no one even had to fill out paperwork, it was free for all students.
A loaf of bread is a dollar. There is food at the dollar store, no cooking needed, a loaf of bread and jam. $2.
People who beg for money have a different agenda than food. No money from me, get a job.
But they want meth, not toothpaste. I say let them have it. I'm conflicted about it, but ultimately I say people should have the right to enjoyably self-destruct.
I would guess you've never been around a tweeker coming down who's in the throes of methamphetamine-psychosis. It's very ugly and they are very dangerous. Consequently, your charitable act endangers not just the individual target of your largesse but those around him or her and they might be children, women or men including first responders who may have to try to contain them.
Two weeks after I left law enforcement one of my former partners was killed by a psychotic meth addict responding to a domestic violence call. My partner was in his early 30s with a wife and two young children. Perhaps you're even the one who gave his murderer the money to get high on. You do no one any favors by funding such a habit for anyone.
PS. Needless to say, I don't give money to panhandlers but rather to legitimate relief agencies; especially those helping women and children, real veterans and seniors.
Last edited by Curmudgeon; 09-13-2013 at 08:51 PM..
The reason this made news is because the whole scenario is so unusual.
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