U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Philosophy
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-18-2013, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,231,932 times
Reputation: 36087

Advertisements

Is there a philosophy of criminal justice? If there is, what is it? Is human society compliant with it? If it runs off the track, is there a means to right it? Does it occupy any space in current thinking of modern philosophers?

Mosaic law is rife with draconian teachings on this element of philosophy, and the Gospels no stranger to it. How far has human wisdom advanced in this area, in the past 5,000 years?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-18-2013, 11:16 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,106,888 times
Reputation: 3965
The second paragraph is irrelevant. That is to say, the Bible is (mostly) irrelevant in regards to present-day secular philosophy. It's relevant only in the sense of tracing influences.

As for the first paragraph. There's a philosophy of everything/anything. 99.9999% of people that exist are moralists, in the sense that that they derive their values from simplistic rules. You or I might be in that .0001% of relativists. Relativism respects the contingency of morality vis--vis cultural norms. The realization is that nothing matters, absolutely. Justice is a myth but also paradoxically a standard to strive for.

The idea is to understand the reason for action whether or not the action itself is arbitrarily deemed acceptable. When we can relate over that thought process then perhaps we've achieved a philosophically sustainable secular mechanism...yeah, ultimately I see such latter-day understandings being completely arbitrary and ultimately sectarian, but perhaps never to be destroyed...?

Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 09-18-2013 at 11:26 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2013, 11:33 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,106,888 times
Reputation: 3965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
The second paragraph is irrelevant. That is to say, the Bible is (mostly) irrelevant in regards to present-day secular philosophy. It's relevant only in the sense of tracing influences.

As for the first paragraph. There's a philosophy of everything/anything. 99.9999% of people that exist are moralists, in the sense that that they derive their values from simplistic rules. You or I might be in that .0001% of relativists. Relativism respects the contingency of morality vis--vis cultural norms. The realization is that nothing matters, absolutely. Justice is a myth but also paradoxically a standard to strive for.

The idea is to understand the reason for action whether or not said action itself is arbitrarily deemed acceptable. When we can relate over that thought process (in favor of the action we referenced) then perhaps we've achieved a philosophically sustainable secular mechanism...lol, doubtful. Ultimately I see such latter-day attempts at understanding being exposed as completely arbitrary and then sectarian (given prior preconceptions), but perhaps always permissible...?
.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-19-2013, 12:54 AM
 
5,798 posts, read 9,297,822 times
Reputation: 6008
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Is there a philosophy of criminal justice? If there is, what is it? Is human society compliant with it? If it runs off the track, is there a means to right it? Does it occupy any space in current thinking of modern philosophers?

Mosaic law is rife with draconian teachings on this element of philosophy, and the Gospels no stranger to it. How far has human wisdom advanced in this area, in the past 5,000 years?

There's criminal justice ethics. See The Institute for Criminal Justice Ethics
They publish an excellent journal three times a year: The Institute for Criminal Justice Ethics | Journal
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-19-2013, 01:07 AM
 
12,686 posts, read 14,068,003 times
Reputation: 34782
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Is there a philosophy of criminal justice? If there is, what is it? Is human society compliant with it? If it runs off the track, is there a means to right it? Does it occupy any space in current thinking of modern philosophers?

Mosaic law is rife with draconian teachings on this element of philosophy, and the Gospels no stranger to it. How far has human wisdom advanced in this area, in the past 5,000 years?
Joseph Raz is the only name that comes to mind at the moment. He is (was?) and Israeli who taught at Oxford, maybe the U.S.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-19-2013, 04:51 AM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,106,888 times
Reputation: 3965
I was incredibly drunk when I posted last night. For myself, I am an advocate of utilitarianism (our best attempts at it anyway) and rehabilitation. The retributive for-profit (in some cases) system we have now is beyond laughable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-20-2013, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,231,932 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
I was incredibly drunk when I posted last night. .
That saves me the trouble of responding to it, but I'll add a few remarks anyway.

The only reason I made the biblical reference was to put into perspective the futility of the effort so far to deal with ethics.

Your 99.999999% is way out of line, considering that the psychological community considers about 5% to be the incidence of clinical sociopathy in America. That would define people who are essentially devoid of any moralism in the usual meaning of the word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast View Post
There's criminal justice ethics. See The Institute for Criminal Justice Ethics
They publish an excellent journal three times a year: The Institute for Criminal Justice Ethics | Journal
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. But it is an idealist proposition, which only aims at an exploration of ethics, not a reflection of practice. I would suggest that the overwhelming majority of persons incarcerated in the USA receive absolutely no benefit from this ethical standard, and even the ethic itself ignores pre-incarceration evaluation.

Last edited by jtur88; 09-20-2013 at 11:03 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-20-2013, 11:10 AM
 
350 posts, read 600,228 times
Reputation: 495
If you're accused of a crime, it helps to be rich.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2013, 04:23 PM
 
12,887 posts, read 15,424,246 times
Reputation: 14853
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Is there a philosophy of criminal justice? If there is, what is it? Is human society compliant with it?
It's not how good the lawyer is but how well he knows the judge...human society is compliant with it because justice costs money, money that some of us don't have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2013, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,189,484 times
Reputation: 14007
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Is there a philosophy of criminal justice? If there is, what is it? Is human society compliant with it? If it runs off the track, is there a means to right it? Does it occupy any space in current thinking of modern philosophers?

Mosaic law is rife with draconian teachings on this element of philosophy, and the Gospels no stranger to it. How far has human wisdom advanced in this area, in the past 5,000 years?
The intent of the Criminal Justice System is to keep the majority "scared" enough to comply on their own and keep crime "underground" where it is harder to see and has less influence over the majority.

Criminal Justice isn't about stopping crime... quite the opposite. It's actually big business and requires criminal behavior to continue to exist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Philosophy
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top